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The Pike/Pine bucket drummer honor code

Screen Shot 2015-01-30 at 2.08.31 PMSPD has its own problems to solve right now. And while there are bigger questions about our neighborhood identities, and smaller but important questions about those identities, too, CHS has another riddle of living in the big city to solve: At what hour should the bucket drummers of Pike/Pine cease operations?

Here’s an email we received from a reader:

I live on the corner of E Pine and Broadway.  Bucket drummers have been playing at all hours and the SPD have done nothing about it. This has been going on since the summer.  I figured that when the weather turned cold it would cease but that has not been the case.   It is my impression that during the day this may be legal but that noise ordinances kick in at 11pm.  Last night they started at 10:30pm and ended a little after 4am.  This has become the norm.  Sometimes they start around 1am or so.  Myself and other tenants have called the police many times (including last night) and nothing is ever done.  I have asked officers about how this gels with noise ordinances and have not once been given a straight answer.  Can you assist? Can you throw this problem out there so more people who are affected by it can chime in?

This city guide to neighborhood noise makes no mention of bucket drums or drums of any type but it does spell out the muni code’s Noise in Public Parks and Places language:

Screen Shot 2015-01-30 at 2.28.09 PM

From what we can tell, the drummers have the right to drum buckets. What is needed, then, is a Pike/Pine bucket drummer code of honor. What are acceptable bucket drumming hours?

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UPDATE: In the comments, Forrest says he is one of the active bucket drummers in the area and offers some insights. He also invites you to contact him with complaints, etc.:

Hi, maybe someone could move this to the top of the page, considering I am one of two bucket drummers that I know of that currently play capitol hill. My name is Forrest Hoffman. I am a bucket drummer, I play with buckets and bottles. I don’t use any cymbals. I have been playing in Seattle for 8 years. Recently another bucket drummer has started playing, (8 months), and he plays whenever he pleases. I have taken care to respect peoples sleeping hours, and I feel that not my having not had the police respond with a noise complaint in 5 years speaks to both my respect and drumming abilities. However, I have felt the hostility towards me rise in the last 8 months. Perhaps I am paranoid, and perhaps rightfully so, as these complaints against bucket drummerS — see plurality for emphasis — have started in the last 8 months. I do not feel that I should be punished for copycat drummers who suck. You might as well punish anyone else for looking like someone else, or speaking the same language, or any other form of stereotypy. Start with rich people. That is all.

My email address, [email protected], is open for anyone who would like to discuss with me, or complain to me about, matters of bucket drumming.

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boozecruise
boozecruise
9 years ago

I live a block away from the letter writer. What bothers me about these bucket drummers is that they are not good at drumming buckets. They don’t bring any flavor to the field. It is the exact same middle school band class drum loop for hours on end. I do prefer it the increasingly popular game that people play at 4 am on Pike, though, called “Knock the construction signs over, giggle, pick them up and knock them over again”.

Jim Beam
Jim Beam
9 years ago
Reply to  boozecruise

I don’t think the club or the drummers realize that the noise in that alley is amplified due to the reverberation through the alley walls–by the time it gets to the tenants living in apartments with decks/bedrooms facing the alley, it is seriously intensified; the club became so bad a couple years ago with patrons gunning their motorcycles, I went to the club and invited the manager back to my apartment balcony to hear the extent of the noise; the club needs to have their patrons exit out the front or from the back entrance south–not allowed to travel on foot through the alley north at closing times. The drummer needs to relocate.

Timmy73
Timmy73
9 years ago

Wouldn’t bucket drums fall under “portable audio equipment”? They are a piece of equipment, portable and used to create audio by the drummer. Based on this the bucket drummer should be fined accordingly.

I’ve walked passed countless times and wonder how residents live with it. The other sounds and such are at least passing. The bucket drumming is relentless. I wonder how those who are moving into the new developments on 10th and Union are (or will) deal with it.

r
r
9 years ago
Reply to  Timmy73

well, if you choose to live at 10th and Union, I’m guessing you’re expecting a high amount of ambient noise due to being in the middle of a major nightlife district. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourself.

DB McWeeberton
DB McWeeberton
9 years ago
Reply to  r

Bucket drumming at 4 am is not “ambient noise”.

Timmy73
Timmy73
9 years ago
Reply to  r

Emergency sirens, horns honking, partiers screaming: All things that come and go and are expected noises when living in a vibrant urban area.

1 person relentlessly playing bucket drums for 8 hours overnight is not expected noise and shouldn’t be tolerated.

notnathan
notnathan
8 years ago
Reply to  Timmy73

Exactly

COMTE
COMTE
9 years ago
Reply to  r

I don’t think any reasonable person would equate ceaselessly drumming on plastic buckets at 4:00 a.m. as constituting “nightlife” in the sense you seem to imply.

jc
jc
9 years ago
Reply to  COMTE

Who knows? It might be an unemployed musician looking for a gig. What better place to take your buckets than the nightlife core.

COMTE
COMTE
9 years ago
Reply to  jc

And for whom exactly would said drummer be auditioning on an empty street corner in the middle of the night?

DB McWeeberton
DB McWeeberton
9 years ago

Who voted for “Never stop, please”? Did they misread it as “Never! Stop, Please!!!”?

Helen Keller
Helen Keller
9 years ago
Reply to  DB McWeeberton

Yeah, that was me. My bad.

jonathan
jonathan
9 years ago

Maybe they would take $20 to move it down to Melrose.

Sam
Sam
9 years ago
Reply to  jonathan

Nope, they won’t accept tips to move. I’ve tried. I’ve spoken to the police countless times, and two weeks ago, was told that by SPD that they are well aware of the bucket drummer problem, and planned to charge him with violation of the noise ordinance (as stated above). Last night he was back, playing the same obnoxious loop, until well past the stated 10:00 p.m. curfew. It is not part of our nightlife noise, nor is it ambient. It is obnoxious and relentless.

DB McWeeberton
DB McWeeberton
9 years ago
Reply to  Sam

It’s bizarre that the police are apparently helpless to stop the frenzied antisocial nocturnal drummers of Pine. Do they have magical powers or something?

fluffy
9 years ago
Reply to  DB McWeeberton

Maybe you should tell the police that the drummers are school teachers who are assembling in the name of Martin Luther King Jr instead.

l.
l.
9 years ago
Reply to  Sam

Hey Sam,
Please join so we can work together to address this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/427803024042171/

razr
razr
9 years ago
Reply to  jonathan

If they show up over here, I’ll pay them double to go back to your side of town, we can see who runs out of cash first, likely not me.

Scott
Scott
9 years ago

Keep calling the police and file a noise complaint. And keep calling, everyone. Numbers matter. And if an officer is dispatched ask to speak with the officer to see the resolution. The process sucks but it’s the only thing that seems to help in our city of crazy processes. Also email the mayor’s office and city council, better yet call, and better yet write the a letter and send it snail mail. On good authority I’ve heard that city council members don’t really pay attention to email.

CaphillTom
CaphillTom
9 years ago
Reply to  Scott

I bet they’d respond if the offender was drumming his pickle bucket at 4 a.m. in the Harvard/Belmont Historical District north of Roy Street.

JTContinental
JTContinental
9 years ago

I recommend kicking the bucket.

CityLife
CityLife
9 years ago

Wow. Slow news day? A handful of people in the most active part of the hill are anti bucket drumming and suddenly there’s talk of repeatedly calling the spd? There are way bigger fish to fry. I’m not surprised they didn’t move for a tip. As a former street performer, I know that bribery like that is offensive. I agree there should be a curfew around midnight. Maybe learn the bucket drummers names, explain your situation and come to an agreement like civil people without calling the cops?

news flash
news flash
9 years ago
Reply to  CityLife

*Everyone* hates bucket drumming, not “a handful of people”. I’d be calling 911 on your inconsiderate asses every hour on the hour.

r
r
9 years ago
Reply to  news flash

nah, I dig it. I think most people I associate with don’t mind it.

l.
l.
9 years ago
Reply to  CityLife

“Maybe learn the bucket drummers names, explain your situation and come to an agreement like civil people without calling the cops?”

Last night this person was once again playing bucket drums till 4am.
You’re saying it’s the fault of the neighborhood for not getting to know his name? WTF?
If this person were civil he would see he is surrounded by apartments, he would ask himself if all these people wanted to listen to him practice drums at 4am (or even 4pm) and realize the answer is no. And yes, I have attempted to civilly deal with it and the answer is always something like “Dude, if you don’t like it you should move”. Um, I’ve lived on that block for 15+ years while this person appeared a few months ago. The only thing that comes close to as obnoxious as bucket drumming at 4am is someone who moved to the hill months ago telling someone who has lived in the neighborhood almost all their live that they should move if they don’t like them playing drums in front of their house at 4am.

poorform
poorform
9 years ago
Reply to  l.

Well said! We live too close together to let one person’s whims ruin the sleep of everyone surrounding them.

RWK
RWK
9 years ago

If I’m not mistaken, the noise ordinances apply after 10PM on weekdays and 11PM on weekends. The drummers are being rude, obnoxious and….might I say…passive-aggressive in pretending to not know that their activities are very irritating. The ordinances need to be enforced. How about involving a “community service officer”? (if they still exist at the East Precinct).

CaphillTom
CaphillTom
9 years ago
Reply to  RWK

I was just on the City website. You are correct, Bob. The hours noise is to be kept at a minimum are spelled out in several places on the site. The specific text about banning noise is as follows:

25.08.400 – Unlawful sounds
It is unlawful for any person to cause sound, or for any person in possession of property to permit sound originating from such property, to intrude into the real property of another person whenever such sound exceeds the exterior sound level limits established by this subchapter.

l.
l.
9 years ago

Hey, a fb group was just started regarding this. Please join if this is a problem for you.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/427803024042171/members/

CaphillTom
CaphillTom
9 years ago
Reply to  l.

I wonder if the admin of that FB group is the one who wrote the letter in this story?

Timmy73
Timmy73
9 years ago

I walked by a couple times last night. Perhaps it was the fog but the sound was more muted. However, the drums set now includes multiple traditional drum set pieces (sorry Im not musically inclined to know the various parts names).

Meanwhile I saw SPD on foot patrol just a few feet away seemingly fine with the street performance at 2 am.

poorform
poorform
9 years ago

For those saying drumming into the next morning is part of living in the big city, I say being considerate is part of living in the big city. Kind of like not blocking the sidewalk for people passing by. Common courtesy.

jonathan
jonathan
9 years ago
Reply to  poorform

It seems like there is a pattern of East Precinct “de-policing” of Capitol Hill following occurrences where The Stranger has reported on discriminatory policing and excessive force. Could that be what this is about?

l.
l.
9 years ago
Reply to  jonathan

I did talk to two Capitol Hill officers who said they are supposed to avoid unnecessary conflict due to the claims of excessive force, etc. This was before the incident involving the elderly man and the golf club. It’s a shame the SPD can’t pick their battles better. I think the East Precinct also tries to play it by ear and probably assumes most in the community think the all hours bucket drumming should be tolerated. If the community makes it clear that this is not the case I think they will crack down. I think their “tolerance” of it is mostly due to assuming that’s what most in the community want.

jonathan
jonathan
9 years ago
Reply to  l.

They are supposed to de-escalate conflict without using physical force when time, circumstances and safety permit. When the use of force is unavoidable, they are supposed to use only the degree of force that Is objectively reasonable, necessary under the circumstances, and proportional to the threat or resistance.

That is the new policy adopted by SPD under supervision by the US Dept. of Justice. If there are additional policies regarding conflict avoidance in general, SPD leadership has not endorsed these as far as I can see. This suggests a need for reform somewhere in the chain of command.

l
l
9 years ago

Apparently there is a history of the SPD ticketing people for public bucket drumming even when it occurs during the day. As someone else stated above, multitude of claims of SPD misconduct/harassment is probably why it’s no longer being pursued. This is from 2010:
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/03/22/spd-harshes-billys-mellow&view=comments

allongated
allongated
9 years ago

The drummer’s name is Joe. Try talking to him as politely as possible, and he will pack it up. It is a damn shame that he cannot drum worth a darn, and you should bear in mind that he is homeless and probably brain damaged. I get the feeling that his father used to beat on him.
Also, if you call police, ask for officer contact, and get an incident number from dispatch. Then ask for a follow-up the following day. The law states that he is entitled to a warning, and that upon subsequent infractions (after 10 on weekdays and 11 on weekends), he will be fined up to $500 and/or jailed up to 180 days, and as has happened to other street musicians,have his noise-making equipment confiscated.. I am convinced that the police do not like to do paper work, even though it is part of their job description when they are put on the spot.
Seattle Municipal Code 25.08.500: It is unlawful to knowingly cause, make, or allow unreasonable noise to emanate from property under ones control, which disturbs another, and to refuse or intentionally fail to cease the unreasonable noise when ordered to do so by a police officer. “Unreasonable noise” includes loud, frequent, raucous, repetitive, or continuous sounds made by: animals, horns or sirens (other than emergency equipment), motor vehicles being repaired or tested, musical instruments or sound amplified or human voices, amplified or unamplified, between the hours of 10:00 PM and 7:00 AM.
Also, you might try calling the city’s noise specialist at 684-7843.

CaphillTom
CaphillTom
9 years ago

Doesn’t look like the City can be bothered to enforce the ordinance. The following is from their noise ordinance webpage:

What It Isn’t
We do not enforce the Seattle Municipal Code sections that cover loud noises from barking dogs, horns or sirens, motor vehicles, musical instruments, human voices, car stereos, watercraft, or official special events. Contact the Seattle Police Department, (206) 625-5011, for these types of noise problems.

I read that as they can’t be bothered by this kind of noise. Granted, it’s not REALLY a musical instrument, but to the fellow playing it, it’s music.

DB
DB
9 years ago

Broadway/Pine is notoriously loud at night. The entire area is. You shouldn’t be wasting SPD’s time with some street musician when people are getting robbed, beaten, shot, stabbed etc. Seriously. Go. Live. Somewhere. Else.

CaphillTom
CaphillTom
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

great attitude

allongated
allongated
9 years ago
Reply to  CaphillTom

One hears that a lot. People have a right to a decent night’s sleep. There is nothing hip or cool about making stupid noise in the middle of the night. If DB thinks it is cool to be an idiotic public nuisance, I will go out and say a prayer for the world as we know it.

allongated
allongated
9 years ago
Reply to  allongated

CaphillTom– I get the part about car stereos and loud cars and for sure public permitted events. Waste of time trying to enforce, for the sake of “You kids get offa my lawn!” -type enthusiasts. Hard to enforce car stereo boomies. When the red and blue lights should flash, the volume control is handily nearby. I have actually approached some car stereo party people, in my pajamas and night-cap, and asked them to please turn down the volume, and except for one time only, in 17 years residing here, people are nice. They were not aware of themselves being obnoxious. You would be amazed how kind most people can be. I have dealt with barking dogs, however, though without involving the police. Living on the hill is great–you can walk to a lot of good venues. Drunk wooing 3 a.m-ers are a hassle, but only for a blink or two. Other neighborhoods in Seattle have their own special set of disadvantages.
However, I do not believe that the cops would not step up to dealing with Joe the bad drummer with a concerted effort by well-meaning residents who are invested in this community. And if the cops won’t listen, talk to Joe. He stopped drumming in my turf.

DB
DB
9 years ago
Reply to  CaphillTom

Well come on. I used to live near 23rd and Union for 3 years because it’s all I could afford and we had shootings on a regular basis. I’m talking about guys emptying entire clips on the sidewalk in front of my apartment ok. And there were kids and families that lived all around us. It would take 7 to 13 minutes for police to arrive and by then, the shooters were always gone. Every time. This happened weekly regardless if the news reported it or not, it was a regular thing. Daytime shootings not just night time. When I would walk my dogs. Getting out of my car and having to duck from bullets like its Compton. So when I read about people complaining that SPD isn’t doing enough to stop street musicians from playing at Broadway/Pine it’s absolutely ridiculous. Stop wasting their time. Please.

CDer
CDer
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

DB- I am one of those CD families you refer to. We had a shooting happen in front of our house a block from 23rd and union at 5:00 pm a few years ago. BTW the cops got there within a minute Not much they could do, but take a report. (The shooters were long gone in their speeding cars)

Sure shootings are more imortamt issue than drumming in the middle of the night, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be dealt with.

In this case there is a simple solution, the cops need to tell Joe to shut it down. Not that hard and honestly I think it would be a good PR move for them.

And saying like these people that they have to deal with night drumming because they chose to live In an area with an an active nightlife is like telling me I have to put up with assholes shooting weapons in the streets and dealing drugs because I chose to live in the CD.

DB
DB
9 years ago
Reply to  CDer

From how the laws appear to be written, it doesn’t look like Joe is breaking the law any more than one of the Bellevue woo girls in that area. Noise is noise.

To address your last point, yes, I am saying that they have to deal with noise because they chose to live in an active nightlife area. That is exactly what I am saying. I’m sorry you had another shooting in your neighborhood, believe me, I know how terrifying it is. But I can’t emphasize enough that if people on the Hill quit calling Dad every time they were too passive aggressive to actually talk to someone (who’s playing an instrument and not doing anything violent whatsoever) the police would have that much more free time to be where they actually need to be.

Michael
Michael
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

You’re comparing two unrelated events. They are not mutually exclusive issues.

RWK
RWK
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

DB, contrary to what some people believe, police officers can walk and chew gum at the same time. Of course more serious crimes should have priority, but that doesn’t mean officers can’t also deal with noise problems when they aren’t otherwise engaged with something more serious.

sandra
sandra
9 years ago
Reply to  RWK

DB- at this point you are just trolling.
I started writing a lengthy response to your statements then realized it’s not worth it.

DB McWeeberton
DB McWeeberton
9 years ago
Reply to  RWK

Thanks for your succinct reply to this DB’s either/or thesis. The role of police has always been to combat crime AND handle other public nuisances. There’s no legitimate reason for working people to be regular woken from sleep late at night–even if they live in a neighborhood that *some* people still consider exclusively a party zone.

–the other D.B.

--MC
--MC
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

Yeah, fuck this. I’ve lived on the Hill for decades and whenever there has been a noise issue — an upstairs neighbor running his music at four am, or somebody breaking bottles outside in the street — their go-to response when called on it has always been “You don’t like my noise? It’s Capitol Hill, go live somewhere quiet.” No, you go learn how to live in a city — it’s not a playpen for sociopaths.

RainWorshipper
RainWorshipper
9 years ago

I recently moved from Pine and Belmont and they would do the bucket drumming near there all night long and keep me up. I hope something is done. People have the right to a night’s sleep, even in an area with nightlife. It was part of the unpleasantness that had me leaving the area.

Dan
Dan
9 years ago

20 years ago, this same problem happened every night on the corner of Broadway and John. That time it was the Communist Youth Brigade and their bullhorns. A squirt gun from a high up nearby apartment did the trick because they thought someone was pissing on them. This was after the police, who back then had a Community Police Team, told me that they were advised not to do anything, but that If I “removed” their bullhorn and “disposed of it” on the adjacent 1 story building roof, they wouldn’t arrest me. ….Some things never change.

Shaking His Head
Shaking His Head
9 years ago

This seems like a super tolerant bunch. I live a little further north than where this is all taking place, so I’m not offering to lead the charge, but…

Why don’t 5 or 6 of you get together and just go down and take the buckets? Don’t care if it’s legal… if the SPD isn’t going to take immediate action then why not take matters into your own hands? Not that complicated… can’t believe you put up with that kind of nonsense.

DB
DB
9 years ago

Exactly. And it might not even need to come to that. After reading through all of these comments it appears that nobody who has a problem with this guy has even talked to him or asked him to stop. All they’ve been doing is calling Dad.

10 years ago I lived in Downtown Tacoma and we had drug dealers, crackheads, and prostitutes congregating on the corner outside of our building every Friday and Saturday nights. The police could only do so much because, after all, it came with the neighborhood. So my buddies and I would grab a case of beer and fill up a 5 gallon bucket with water balloons, and head up to the rooftop lob water balloons down below all night. After a couple weekends of this, 3 teenagers completely cleared all criminal activity on that corner with no serious confrontations whatsoever.

Sam
Sam
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

I tried to approach him and speak to him, and asked him how he was doing, anything to try to start a conversation about his hobby. The moment I mentioned the time of night that might be best to stop drumming, perhaps 10:00 or so, and I asked him if he could stop at 10:00 instead of 3:30 a.m., as I was having a lot of trouble sleeping when he was drumming, he became defensive, angry, and told me that if I can’t handle his bucket drumming noise, I need to move out of this neighborhood.

RWK
RWK
9 years ago
Reply to  Sam

It’s pretty typical of street people that they get angry/defensive when confronted (politely) about their antisocial behavior. I’ve tried, and have gotten that reaction every time. It’s better to call the police and hope that they respond.

COMTE
COMTE
9 years ago
Reply to  DB

I guess the more pertinent question is: WHY should people have to explain ANYTHING to this guy? Does it really take some sort of advanced degree in Civics or a high IQ to recognize that people who live in a neighborhood might not be enamored of someone pounding ceaselessly on plastic buckets below their bedroom windows in the middle of the night? Sounds like who ever this is simply has no concept of what constitutes basic civil behavior – or just doesn’t care. Either way he’s a public nuisance, and based on what others have said above, seems to feel he has some unalienable right to act like a complete ass. Why should such behavior be tolerated?

joanw
joanw
9 years ago

Obviously we don’t know enough yet. If this would have a disparate impact you are a racist who shouldn’t even live here anyway, otherwise fine.

sandra
sandra
9 years ago
Reply to  joanw

Joan are you sure you are not related to DB? You too are a troll. I hate to break the news to you but all the bucket drummers I’ve seen in that neighborhood are white. I’m sure you’ll find a way to claim whites complaining about other whites is racist. The police would have cracked down on the bucket drummers immediately if they were black so those demanding the police crack down on the bucket drummers are fighting for racial equality. Is that better?

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago

Hi, maybe someone could move this to the top of the page, considering I am one of two bucket drummers that I know of that currently play capitol hill. My name is Forrest Hoffman. I am a bucket drummer, I play with buckets and bottles. I don’t use any cymbals. I have been playing in Seattle for 8 years. Recently another bucket drummer has started playing, (8 months), and he plays whenever he pleases. I have taken care to respect peoples sleeping hours, and I feel that not my having not had the police respond with a noise complaint in 5 years speaks to both my respect and drumming abilities. However, I have felt the hostility towards me rise in the last 8 months. Perhaps I am paranoid, and perhaps rightfully so, as these complaints against bucket drummerS — see plurality for emphasis — have started in the last 8 months. I do not feel that I should be punished for copycat drummers who suck. You might as well punish anyone else for looking like someone else, or speaking the same language, or any other form of stereotypy. Start with rich people. That is all.

My email address, [email protected], is open for anyone who would like to discuss with me, or complain to me about, matters of bucket drumming.

Mimi
Mimi
9 years ago

Sorry, no one likes a bucket drummer, day or night. It’s noise pollution.

genevieve
genevieve
9 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

I will go on record as being (I guess) the only person who likes bucket drumming. Granted, it’s not happening right outside my window – I’ve got other “Cap Hill Nightlife” sounds to deal with – but if the drummer is good, I enjoy it.

But hours and hours of even a good thing can be maddening.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  genevieve

Genevieve, thank you for going on record as such.

I have overwhelming personal evidence against the blanket statement made above, however, having other voices online in support is invaluable. Statements like, “No one such and such and such” is typical of smear campaigns organized by professional or criminal entities. My initial opinion, that one would not expect a bucket drummer to be targeted by such entities, has changed over 10 years of performance, as I have observed that street performers can be more infuential in their operations at the psychological / social / market level than commonly given credit for, and that the performers have personal lives beyond their appearance on the street that can sometimes become entangled with larger interests.

There are a lot of nasty ways that large incorporated entities can deface individual rights and personal liberty. So, thank you!

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

How would you feel if i said, “Mimi, no one likes a mimi, it’s personality pollution,” or, “no one likes the sounds of your voice, its noise pollution,” or if I were more honest and direct and said, “My personal opinion is that I don’t like what you do. I believe I speak for everyone when I say, I think you suck.” or perhaps, “I have surreptitious and private reasons for discrediting you in public, you suck!”

None of these are kind or, in my opinion, very legitimate positions or statements, however I would not challenge another’s right to voice these positions. Perhaps if my bucket drumming is offensive to you, it is a personal problem that you and I could discuss in the proper forum without diminishing the social capital of Bucket Drummers or Mimi.

Mimi
Mimi
9 years ago

Banging on plastic is not music.If I want to hear someone bang on plastic I’ll give some tupperware to my toddler.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  Mimi

You appear to be trolling. I will refer you to the recent study conducted by esteemed band director Dr. Morris of University of Washington in which is was determined that people enjoy orchestras more when they can see the conductor, and also to the work of composer John Cage. If you are not intentionally trolling, I will observe that you have a very narrow, shallow, and unconvincing definition of music. If you want to continue this discourse in some sort of forum where you aren’t hiding your identity behind the internet expressly for the purpose of trolling an bringing down the quality of productive discourse (except perhaps by giving me an opportunity to educate whomever is reading this, and perhaps by further demoting the status of anonymous cowards who post on forums with hateful intention), I would be glad to do so. What is your last name, where can we meet, and what is your motivation for your posting?

RWK
RWK
9 years ago

Forrest, at what time do you stop drumming for the night? I assume you are doing this to make money in tips, which makes you a “busker.” I believe you need a permit for that, if I’m not mistaken.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  RWK

Dear Bob,

You are mistaken regarding the need for a permit for busking. One needs a permit to perform only in Pike Place Market. Everywhere else it is a free speech action which, unless I am mistaken, I figure to be protected by first amendment rights.

I stop drumming at 10 pm on weeknights, and I use my discretion on weekends. On noisy, boisterous nights on capitol hill (where I play infrequently, perhaps as often as once a week, or as little as once a year) I will play as late as until last call. I use commonsense, which is intuition that most people have access to about what is acceptable and what is not. To me, it is commonsense that if you are in a loud and noisy and public environment where people are “partying,” it is acceptable to participate in the party until the last call for alcohol. So, some nights I play as late as 2 AM. However, if an individual approaches me and suggests that my playing is preventing them from sleeping, I have great sympathy, as I also enjoy sleep, and understand that not everyone is able to sleep through a celebratory environment, and so cessate my drumming.

It is my personal belief that a majority of people have access to moral guidelines through commonsense, and that I have a personal responsibilty (so that I can sleep at night and contribute a common good) to respect these guidelines.

justin
justin
9 years ago

Forrest- I hate to be the bearer of bad news but drumming is unpleasant to 95% of the population? Why not practice in a space where you are not subjecting people to noise they don’t want to hear? Street noise- cars, buses, people talking, police sirens- is unavoidable. There is no reason to practice drumming on busy interseactions. No one wants to hear it.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  justin

The people are brought there to party at the clubs which produce sound levels in the low bass frequencies at considerably louder levels than my drumming. The figure you have made up, 95% of the population, grossly exaggerates how many people you represent. I receive gratuities for my drumming from significantly more than 5% of the population on nights like that. There are instances when 100% of the human beings within 25 yards come and put money in the jar. I have tried drumming without the jar, years ago, and found it to be distracting to have people approach and try to hand me money. I do not intend to exaggerate my value– there are times when quite literally 1 in 10 people who pass will tip me. I tend to abandon playing in places where I feel unwanted or unappreciated. e

I am not Joe Buckets. I am Forrest Hoffman.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  justin

Dear Justin,
Perhaps you have gone to the same marketing classes as “Mimi,” the other person who littered this thread with hyperbole. Coincidentally, you also seem averse to using your full name. I have read articles and books in which phrases like “No one.. such and such” are cited as the words effected by those acting in disinformation and smear campaigns. Are you paid to do this? If this is true in your case, I advise you to consider the value of not lying to your fellow citizens, not selling yourself short by accepting money to do so, and putting yourself to a good use. Why not learn to play an instrument? If this is not true, well, perhaps your arguments would be more effective if you refrained from gross hyperbole.

RWK
RWK
9 years ago

Forrest, you seem like a thoughtful person. But using the 2AM (last call) standard as to when you stop drumming is not fair or respectful to those residents who are trying to sleep at that hour, or earlier. Not everyone is out partying.

forrest hoffman
forrest hoffman
9 years ago
Reply to  RWK

Dear Bob,
I think it is unfair to lump together bucket drummers, as some of us make considerably less noise than others. When I play, I play at the corner across from the Comet and Neumo’s. The bass decibel levels from the club like Lost Lake and the one across the street from there are higher than my drumming, at the site of my drumming, and I would therefore conclude that they are higher at your location as well. My drumming, which is deliberately not inconsiderate, is unlikely to be disturbing your rest, however if you ever do have this problem, please say something to me. No one has ever said anything to me while I have been playing on the street in Capitol Hill in recent history (~5 years)

spacematters
spacematters
9 years ago

Seriously? This cat lives at the corner of noise and noise. C’mon CHS, don’t become a mouthpiece for condo dwelling duds that should really just move along to the suburbs.

tc
tc
9 years ago
Reply to  spacematters

real urbanites cultivate their own junk heaps to put in front of their slumlord apartment

justin
justin
9 years ago
Reply to  spacematters

spacematters- I live in a Bellweather apartment on that block. Most of the people in that neighborhood are not wealthy condo owners who moved in last week. The bucket drumers came a few months ago and were told their banging on drums was unpleasant for those who live in the neighborhood. Their response was “too bad”. Sorry but how would you respond if someone set up drums in front of your home than demand you move if you don’t like it?

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[…] some photos I took last summer but had never had the occasion to introduce myself until now. Given CHS’s recent discussions around street drumming, it was a good time to say […]

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[…] wrote about the bucket drumming noise and interviewed Joe about his busking earlier this year. “It’s hard being on the streets moving […]