First Hill Streetcar Map, originally uploaded by Oran Viriyincy.
Our friends at CD News advocate strongly for a 12th Avenue route. With the funding approved, the city wants input from us on the routing. Construction will start in 2011 and the street car should be open by 2013. Plan to attend one of the three community meetings to provide your input:
I’m all for a 12th Avenue option.
The biggest issue I see with this is the distance from the North bound stops to Harborview and Swedish. From the proposed stop locations it looks like 6 blocks to Harborview. These being major destinations and employers on First Hill they really need better access.
yes, especially since the streetcar is supposed to be replacing a First Hill Link station…
No loop – First hill has the clout and the concept.
Sorry, C. Hill is not the end all be all of non downtown.
But, keep talking, maybe a future project will emerge. Not this time.
the proposed FH Link station was about as close to 12th as it was to Virgina Mason…so I am not sure that this logic makes sense. if VM employees want front door service, a rubber tire solution (i.e. shuttle buses) will ALWAYS be faster and more economical than a streetcar.
I am sorry I meant Harborview as well. The Harborview employees will be well served by the stop at the top of Boren, near Jefferson and this stop exists in all three alignments being studied. Swedish is actually well served by both the Broadway alignment and the Broadway/12th loop, as they have a campus east of 12th as well (Swedish Cherry Hill).
this loop image is actually outdated now. since this was created it has been determined by SDOT that the loop would likely go north on broadway and south on 12th. it would likely cut east somewhere around pike/pine or cal anderson, not all the way up at john. i am hoping SDOT will show this at the open houses.
A Broadway alignment will serve both the hospitals and Seattle University (bit potential transit users). Unfortunately a 12th Avenue alignment will only serve Seattle U and lower density residential areas east of 12th. No one is going to walk up the steep hill from 12th Avenue to the hospitals. So if you care about the environment (which means putting transit where people are actually going to use it — you will support a Broadway alignment.
removing the outdated map – thanks Kate for pointing that out
except if it runs in a loop you can a) travel to either light rail station (ID or Cap Hill) and get off at your destination on Broadway just as easily, or b) ride it around to your stop.
Don’t forget the very large Broadway population north of John/Olive. The proposed streetcar needs to serve those five blocks of Broadway which are north of the Link station. Give the numerous Roy St./Mercer St. @ Broadway residents a streetcar connection to Link too!
I care about the environment and putting transit where people will use it and that is why I support a loop that includes 12th Avenue.
Right now, the First Hill Streetcar project is funded TO the Cap Hill Link Station. Nothing after that is funded, although the ext to Roy or Aloha is certainly on the SDOT radar screen. Some of the 12th folks have been arguing that the Loop could be more cost effective, thus making this portion (extension) more likely to happen if there are budget savings…
I haven’t seen the argument that the 12th alignment would save funds. Since my selfish interest is in the northern extension, that’d be enough to convince me despite a general bias for linear alignments.
we don’t know which alignment will be cheapest, but cost is one of the criteria they will be looking at this spring when they examine all three. the thinking is that with the loop, you would have to relocate half as much utilities on broadway and 12th, and possibly go quicker since you are just tearing up one side of the street. so, theoretically, it could be cheaper in the longrun.
Please (re-)prioritize the real First Hill and the replacement of the SoundTransit light rail station.
Facts:
***First Hill’s LR stop was supposed to be on Minor and Madison: smack in the densest part of 1st Hill, with VM and Harborview both quite close, not to mention NW school, ODea, Pugest Sound Blood Ctr, the museum, Town Hall, the YT projects, and several dense/tall residential towers. Many of those residents are older or low income and NOT ONLINE so they are under-represented in forums such as these.
***Census and city gov consider First Hill to end at either Broadway or 12th. Maps from the last ten years draw that line at Broadway (see link below). A streetcar on 12th doesn’t serve First Hill. It would seem real estate agents, private school supporters and unproud squire park residents are trying to fudge the border eastward to turn a regional transit system into a neighborhood convenience.
Please stop undermining the regional benefits of ST. We’re trying to get gas-burning cars off the road folks.
*** ST is not obligated to run a line to every neighborhood near First Hill, nor to extend the street car in either direction. “Already paid for” does not equal “Blank check for streetcar services”. They must link FRIST HILL via the ID and the Cap Hill station.
***ST is obligated to make a connection to first hill to the REST OF THE ST SYSTEM for some good reasons:
DENSITY: it’s very densely populated by business, medical, recreational/churches and residents. The real First Hill is zoned for 160-240′ high rise and midrise buildings. Some blocks are 300′. The real 12th Ave urban village (Broadway to 14th/15th) is zoned for 40′-65′ or lower. Transit should link density to keep the most cars off the road – especially STAGE ONE transit like this. This is a no brainer.
REGIONAL SERVICES: people in Tacoma, Everett and other areas who are trying to live car free may need transit access to unique opportunities provided on Pill Hill, or events at Town Hall, or services at one of Frist Hill’s several Cathedrals/Churches. You’d be hard pressed to find someone living outside Seattle in the ST region worried about commuting to a small private jesuit college on 12th/14th.
http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Research/gis/webplots/k40e.pdf
/rant
I agree. A 12th Avenue Streetcar would be a great future streetcar connecting the city’s proposed Central District line with the Capitol Hill light rail station.
The loop may save money on utility relocation (not necessarily though) but also remember that you have to build twice as many stops. If the streetcar is two-way on one street the plan is to have a center alignment with stops in the street median, thus saving money on platforms.