(Images: CHS)
Apparently, those “brave, well clothed’ activists” are needed for campus clean-up. Seattle Central’s Broadway at Pine plaza was a hive of activity Friday as the deadline arrived for Occupy Seattle campers to vacate the area where they have been camping for six weeks. A giant pile of trash was being slowly worked down by a CleanScapes contractor as campers broke down tents, hauled trash, folded tables and raked leaves to clear the space now that an emergency rule banning campus has gone into effect at Seattle Central.
Despite a call for a “passive resistance” vigil (details below), Occupiers appeared to be diligently working on surrendering the southern end of campus back to the school. Police presence — save for a brief moment of excitement when a SPD motorcade cruised by on Broadway as part of a memorial procession — was extremely light.
With many of the campers homeless, city and school representatives were providing shelter and services information to some who had been living at the camp.
ORIGINAL POST AND UPDATES: It’s time to break camp. Friday is the deadline of a 72-hour notice period before school officials say the Occupy Seattle camp at Seattle Central Community College must be cleared.
UPDATE 12:54 PM: As of noon, the camp is busy with activity as campers haul trash to a large pile in the plaza as a CleanScapes hauler tries to keep up in emptying the dumpsters. Logistics like providing access to haul away the chemical toilets is being worked out. While plans remain for a 24-hour vigil, the camp organizers give every visible sign that a full clean-up and re-location is underway. END OF UPDATE
In a statement posted Thursday, school officials said they believe that many of the remaining campers are “chronically homeless” and said that the school has brought in City of Seattle outreach workers to inform Occupiers of shelter options. The statement also reinforces the Friday deadline message:
Throughout the last few weeks, we have kept appropriate authorities and agencies apprised of the situation on the campus. Starting Friday, we will be working more closely with them to determine appropriate next steps. Some of the campers have already left the grounds. Everyone wants to see this situation resolved peacefully, but it is up to Occupy Seattle to make this happen.
According to this notice posted to occupyseattle.org, Occupy Seattle is organizing a “24 hour Teach-in and Passive Resistance Vigil” starting on the campus at noon. “We especially need brave, well clothed activists from midnight to 8 in the morning,” the statement reads:
Occupy Seattle and faculty from SCCC are hosting a 24 hr teach-in and passive resistance vigil. We need students and peacekeepers around the clock from Noon Friday till Noon Saturday. At noon Saturday OS will have a rally, which leads into the 3:00pm march for non violence. The teach-in can only be successful with our participation. The Teach-in will start with “Civil Disobedience Training”. Other subjects include restorative justice, passive resistance, and much more. Please come support Occupy Seattle in four hour shifts from noon to 4, from 4-8, etc. We especially need brave, well clothed activists from midnight to 8 in the morning.
Temperatures are expected to top out in the low 40s today before dipping back into the low 30s tonight.
Earlier this week, school workers tied individual trespass notices to each tent remaining in the encampment at Broadway and Pine. Last Friday, the state won a legal skirmish brought by Occupy Seattle to challenge an emergency rule banning camping from SCCC property. That night, protesters took over a soon-to-be demolished building at 10th and Union prompting a SWAT raid in which 16 people were arrested.
Meanwhile, a representative for Occupy Seattle’s legal working group said Thursday that his group will be in court again Friday morning to ask a Thurston County judge to reconsider the emergency rule.
This is in response to the flip-flop from Killpatrick’s “we will give you the time you need, days or a couple of weeks” to Wakefield’s “GTFO NOW!” call.
If they want to pull a UC Davis, we’ll just stand firm until folks can get packed up and out. Some of us students are willing to keep Occupy safe by using our bodies. The Miami Model is not welcome on our campus.
I would love to watch you get pepper sprayed. Can you put your initials on your shirt?
I assume you have watched the full video of what happend at UC davis and not just the edited down version.
It was to be expected that some of the OS people would resist the order to GTFO. Too bad…they could have chosen to leave peacefully, and they have had days to do so….to claim now that they need more time is just plain passive-aggressive posturing.
I hope the police will not be necessary, but they should be called in today if the camp is not completely gone. If there is any violence on the part of either side, only OS will be to blame.
Doubt it, since the full video does not benefit him or his cause…
I have been so excited for this day! While I have no interest in watching the mayhem, I have been excited that this group of sponges will no longer be sponging and ruining that corner! SO LONG!
Where is the LOVE!???! The 1% have provided us with amenities like a black President, the hand-over-fist loans during G.W.Bush’s second term, the Dot-Com boom, the World Trade Organization (which provides us the opportunity to move to Inida in order to be employed in the USA by being outsourced), and the EV1 electric car to lease (until they recalled all of them and destroyed them). We need to show appreciation for the 1%!!! The 1% are PEOPLE too!!!
We the 99% are pretentious, lazy, and ignorant. As long as we 99% have access to purchases which the 1% allow us: flat screen TVs, video games, shopping sprees, sport stadiums, music venues, SUVs, and alcohol/drugs -we really could care less about the difference between our ‘capitalist democracy’ and being a ‘democratic republic’. How can we NOT have a ‘1%’??? WE the 99% should show some graditude. The 1% should hire a bunch of Indians and Mexicans to occupy the ‘Occupy Movement’ -that’ll teach us!
As far as seattle goes,… how can they have an effective protest by people from the NorthWest? What, they are going to try to make people jealous that they are living in tents and hardly getting by??? >sea-town sold itself out during the Dot-Com boom. You have to communicate with people in order to really get your message through, and any thing that is comprised of avoiding eye contact and facial expressions just doesnt hack it, so good luck and may the pretentious, smug, hick mentality of the North West be w/you.
Passive/Aggressive? Perfect! It’s the Seattle way.
Actually– why waste good pepper spray? It’s supposed to be about 43-45 degrees today, tops. All they really need is a hose. Hell, they’re going to need to break it out anyway after they’ve left. Might as well get double-duty out of it.
You’re guilty of the same simpleton reasoning prevalent on Faux News.
Don’t confuse lack of support for the 99% concept, with disgust for the ineffective and juvenile tactics employed by this group. This trite camping out at SCCC nonsense has turned lots of people indifferent, that would be otherwise totally supportive of the message. Everyone has said this over and over since the decision to move from downtown to the Broadway playground. It’s curious that some people just still don’t grasp that. Occupy Seattle are its own worst enemies.
Please explain why a few days to a few weeks are necessary to relocate or disband a protestcamp that wasn’t welcomed there in the first place? These people came from somewhere (since the assertion of the OS’rs is that they are NOT homeless). As far as I can see they just need to pick up their tents and head home. Get online, and figure out a better place to camp or more effective strategy.
And they only had a few days? BS. They were told NOT to come, then they had weeks to watch the whole “get out” process unfold, then a week before the legal challenge, then 4 days to sit and ponder, then 72 hours. Time to grow up and move on.
I thought St. Marks was going to their mommy and take them under their wing. What are the bitching and complaining about now? No central heating in the parking lot??? (lol)
I can only imagine how long it is gonna take to clean up the site after they are removed. Judging by the stench that rises from teh camp.
How this is OK? As of right now, this is your legacy. I’m sure most people reading this blog would love to support your movement, but you need to get your shit together.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2375955714683&set=a.1
….word is they will give them until 3 a.m. Sunday morning then physically roust the stragglers–just like the technique used in all other cities.
I realize that SCCC is in a tough position; however, something is missing from their response–they seem to be acting in line with the alleged complaints from students regarding sanitation and safety, which is understandable.
However, as an academic entity, their response should include reference to the issue on the table represented by the movement; otherwise, the eviction just contributes to the status quo dysfunction.
“This trite camping out at SCCC nonsense has turned lots of people indifferent, that would be otherwise totally supportive of the message. Everyone has said this over and over since the decision to move from downtown to the Broadway playground. It’s curious that some people just still don’t grasp that. Occupy Seattle are its own worst enemies.”
********
…..yes, the images of the street people this event has drawn is not attractive–but that is part of the split-personality and dysfunction of the issue in our culture.
We do not like to see the underbelly, and you can pretend that it is only a small component of our lucrative existence, but that is not true; the images you see are very much representative of what our system has created and the numbers are far, far greater than are acknowledged; remember, we are relatively insulated from the true reality of America’s underbelly.
If it helps you, remember, a huge chunk of what you find unattractive are our throwaway veterans–can’t manage a successful transition back to proper society ? Find a tent or a bridge and good luck.
Continue to advocate for violence against peaceful protest, it speaks volumes about you.
For the record: I’m not afraid. I have stared down loaded weapons so a little spicy brutality is no big deal. If you can’t use your words then that’s your deal. :)
I am not disagreeing with this point, that people do not like to confront the issue of homelessness. I agree, it’s terrible, and it’s shameful, and ignoring it definitely does happen. But let’s not be naive– our society has very efficiently turned a (somewhat) blind eye to the whole issue. Is that wrong? Sure. No excusing it. We all know it’s true.
SO– what good does it do the Occupy cause, to “hitch the wagon” to an issue that precedent clearly shows has been ignored? It won’t “lift up” the cause of homelessness to greater visibility. All it will do is practically guarantee that the Occupy cause will be similarly ignored. That doesn’t help anything. Making yourself look like homeless people (to the casual observer) doesn’t strengthen their cause, it only weakens yours. I’m not saying it’s right or fair, it’s just the way it is. Not effective. Public opinion (and the success of the Republicans and Plutocrats) clearly bears that out.
PS.
I meant, “the success of the Republicans and Plutocrats in tarring it thusly”, clearly bears that out.
Great idea, Jim! Perhaps the police departments in the USA should adopt what is done in Europe, where “water cannons” are quite effective in dispersing illegal/unruly demonstrations. But then a certain someone on this blog…cough, cough, Phil….could no longer claim that the police are using “chemical weapons” against their citizens.
So far, THIS is the most reasoned comment I have read. Well written.
At a practical level – construction dumpster and 5 hours, four men. Casual loabor from Home Depot parking, 12.00 per hour, VERY hard workers used to manual labor. Easy cleanup compared to many – like work sites.
I know students may not have a lot of experience in such matters, but it is no real problem, some labor and a dumpster, reality checks in.
Well said – Killpatrick is ridiculous. The flip flopping has done a lot of damage and I personally believe they’ve done this to stall and waste time.
On an upnote – I am working on a feature film on (and for) Occupy Seattle that supports/showcases the good work being done by the respectable AND repsonsible folks who are on the front line – we’re talking about the real folks who are the backbone of the movement: who put in the time, effort and energy fighting for the 99%. they brave the cold weather, police harrassment and ignorant folks in Seattle who chose to believe EVERYTHING they read in the newspapers about the movement – (the minority!) My wish for the group is a safe and successful move. I’ll be there this afternoon.
In the news? How about those of us who have lived through OS’ BS? Someone threw a branch at me last night as I walked past from class to work. It was probably the same group of kids who were kicked out of my store for carrying around cases of wine and smoking “something” in my bathroom. Or maybe it was the kid with the Occupy Seattle sticker on his coat that stole my tips.
Just.
Go.
Away.
Thanks for all the costs and the garbage, OWS! But since you don’t pay for it, what do you care right? you are trying to stand up for US by…trashing where we live…because that’s bad for the banks…right?
Don’t let the fucking door hit your dumb asess on the way out!
– taxpayers and neighbors, the actual %99
I hear a lot of rhetoric being thrown around about the “good work” OS is doing, but I haven’t heard anything specific that they’ve accomplished. Unless you’re referring to pissing off the entire neighborhood.
You often hear local activists claim that there aren’t enough shelter beds in the city. Having seen the dedicated people working at places like Operation Nightwatch first hand, I heartily disagree. If some of these folks don’t have a place to live, they should start there. Eventually (if people are actually TRYING), it’s possible to get transitional housing and then public housing. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Meanwhile – farewell, Occupy SCCC!
We may have to entomb this place like they are doing with those Japanese reactors
IN the news? You can read all about the drugs on your website dude. How about this doozy from YOUR website just this week at a GA:
“Reason people have problem with camp is youth activity and drug activity, possibly caused and/or allowed by inner workings of this group: Medical and tactical have been seen being buddy-buddy with electricity going to weird-looking meth tent, along with known drug dealers and Juggalos. Can have other witnesses testify to this fact. Medical and Tactical are in cahoots with the meth-heads. They’re not accountable, taking everything and putting it in storage. Threatened to hit him over the head with a fire extinguisher.”
OK Let’s summarize all the great works here
1) Spitting On Cops
2) Ruining the lawn in a perfectly good park
3) Leaving shit and piss all over SCCC
4) Creating an environment that breeds rats
5) Introducing the lovely smell of Honey Buckets, BO and Pot into the neighborhood
That’s all I will ever remember from this…. What was there political cause again?
Hey AJ…. At what time this weekend are you gonna plant granny out in the middle of the park to take another squirt of pepper spray?
How much time do you actually spend on campus? 5-10 minutes at a stretch?
@TimmyJ
In defense of the protestors (which I will never do again)…I (along with many others) have been contributing to the smell of pot in our neighborhood…
Though the rest of your points are spot on.
So glad these bums are moving on. Go “occupy” a homeless shelter.
So George, you are fine writing a check to those workers and managing it? Thanks! That’s nice of you.
Roberta, you don’t have to spend one minute on campus to witness this hell hole. Corner of Pine and Broadway is all you need to make a good assesment of this mess.
Bob, you still haven’t said whether you believe assault and battery on the part of police is an appropriate response to peaceful civil disobedience.
As I’ve noted previously, the weapons SPD officers have been using against peaceful demonstrators are referred to in their own procedures manual as “chemical agents”. When those chemical agents are used as weapons, it makes perfect sense to refer to them as “chemical weapons.”
think again:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
I find it laughable that about 99% of that group is wrapped around big corporate tobacco’s fat, greedy little fingers.
I think it’s a fair assumption that you’re not wanted here, so long!
So happy to have our school back. So glad my tuition is not going to be wasted dealing with this BS any longer. Yippie!
Also, I work full time and go to school and seriously I do not know a single person in my peer group (late 20’s- early 30’s) who is in support of this movement. Even people I work with that are in their early 20’s think this is lame sauce. I really have to wonder about the type of people supporting this. They need to stop calling themselves the 99% so I can stop feeling offended and misrepresented.
A real chemical weapon is what is waifting off those Honey Buckets
Pew-wee
George has it right, not that difficult of a cleanup job. If these “occupiers” cannot get it cleaned up in a reasonable amount of time, then it proves they are useless and have no skills and that is why they cannot find a job
AJ,
So we are clear about my previous comment, I only “advocated” for you to get pepper sprayed. I just used my words.
The neighborhood hates Occupy. Just leave. I’ve lived on the Hill for about 12 years and never has something galvanized the neighborhood so much as our utter disdain for the SCCC camp
I heard that some of the teachers were supporting them, even encouraging them along and giving them lectures on revolutions and which historically were the successful ones.
Thank you, Mike…I completely agree. There are many shelters in Seattle, and it only takes a minimal amount of effort to get a bed in one of them every night. I am quite sure that there are very few nights every year when beds are not available. The reason some homeless don’t get themselves to a shelter is simple: they can’t use alcohol and/or drugs there.
Also, there are many feeding programs in our city, and food is available for breakfast-lunch-dinner every day of the week. The ubiquitous signs held by street people (“I’m hungry”) are misleading…they are panhandling for drugs/alcohol, not for food.
Sorry I took so long to get back to you all, I was just busy acing art history and an international relations final. *leostrut.jpeg*
Coming back I see I should be sorry, so so sorry. I didn’t realize you guys were so… “focused”. Have a great day. :)
The rats were already here (oops) and I’m looking up above me at rat pee stains that have been here for months. The feces and urine on the lawn? The lawn is clear, go check it out. Not there. The smell? Well, I vomit at the smell of porta-potties with such regularity that I almost never use them. No such regurgitations here.
I feel like this is a great and easy way to test who’s actually been to the camp. Mindlessly gobble up propaganda about problems that predate Occupy? Well then you’ve probably never been.
I’m a full-time student (4 classes!), PTK, two jobs and I’m actually a big fan of Occupy. I’ve found very few students that are opposed to Occupy and those students tend to clump together away from the general population.
But bravo on starting on your way to educating yourself. You’ll learn something someday :)
Phil, your frequent use of inflammatory words (“chemical weapon”…”assault and battery”) is not helping your arguments. Of course, I do not condone “assault and battery” against demonstrating citizens, but the police conduct during the whole OS time has not come anywhere near that behavior….it has a clear legal definition. Actually, I think the SPD should be commended for the restraint they have practiced throughout.
Generally speaking, a “chemical weapon” is something which causes severe and lasting harm…..pepper spray causes a transient irritation of the eyes and no lasting effect….hardly the same thing.
When “peaceful demonstrators” are thumbing their noses at the police, and ignoring repeated directives to clear an intersection, or something similar… then…yes…pepper spray is an effective technique. This was even true at UC Davis, if you watch the complete video of that confrontation. I do approve of its use in such circumstances.
By the way, in my book “peaceful demonstrators” do not disobey the law. They can get their point across without provoking the police.
Several Hill residents brought food earlier and I got inexplicably thanked for being here by a Cap Hill resident after some of us students mic checked our appreciation to the Occupy Seattle camp.
Of course, nobody assumed everyone on Cap Hill supported Occupy. Heck, there are even republicans up here! It’s not all liberal ;)
And there’s jobs for everyone if they want them! Happy days are here again!
…and the rats were alrady here
…AND THE RATS WERE ALREADY HERE!!!!
…and the poop was already here
…AND THE POOP WAS ALREADY HERE!!!!
…and the grass was already dead
…AND THE GRASS WAS ALREADY DEAD!!!
Here ya go AJ, saved you some time by “chat-checking” the facts for ya…
Way to stay on message!
It’s become very clear that there are significant costs to taxpayers for allowing this camp to stay for so long….not only extra trash pickups and security during the past weeks, but now the cleanup is costing a bundle. Cleanscapes extra services do not come cheap and they will bill the city for the mountains of trash they are picking up today. It is insignificant that the campers are raking up a few leaves….so what? Maybe they should contribute $$$ to the cleanup!
I went by the camp earlier today…the previously healthy lawn is reduced to dirt and will require replacement. This is a significant cost too. But does OS care?…no, they don’t…it’s all a part of “sticking it to the man.”
We are so proud of your achievement. It’s great to see that you aced your community college finals. Now pack up your tent and move along before you get pepper sprayed.
AJ’s claim that rats, poop, etc predated the OS camp is laughable. Rats are attracted to garbage, which was not there prior to the camp. Come on AJ, you can do better than that!
I’m one of those volunteering my time at Operation NightWatch….I can assure you, from first hand experience, there are nights all the shelters are full and we have to turn people away, sending them out the door with only a lousy surplus blanket and bus fare. No one should believe, for even one second, that there are ALWAYS plenty of shelter beds available in this city!
..upd
Have you ever been in any political demonstration? There is ALWAYS public cost, that is why we are a free country… right to assemble, free speech … all that.
Between the city and the college, they will manage a bit more $$$ and move on to the hum drum. By the way school is out, right, so how have students been recently all that involved? School at Christmas, think not.
And the lawn will come back on its own – 30 year sod … can’t kill it if you try hard. From a world class gardner. Me.
How fucking typical. Make a huge ass mess then get the brown people from home depot to clean it up. You spoiled bunch of little fucks. Clean up your own goddamned mess.
Bullshit, tco. Personally, my wife and I routinely bought food and supplies for Occupy, in addition to making monetary donations. And we’re not the only Hill residents to do so. We will continue to participate in and support Occupy.
Speak for yourself, fucktard.
It might cost … TENS of dollars to reseed!
Meanwhile, former U.S. Congressman Alan Grayson reports on the GAO audit of the Federal Reserve that took place due to an amendment that he and Congressman Ron Paul placed in the Dodd-Frank bill last year:
“[Federal Reserve] currency swaps and the ‘broad-based emergency program’ loans, together, totaled more than $26 trillion. That’s almost $100,000 for every man, woman, and child in America. That’s an amount equal to more than seven years of federal spending — on the military, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, interest on the debt, and everything else. And around twice American’s total GNP.
“You may have heard somewhere that all this money was paid back. Not true. The GAO lists five Fed bailout programs that still have amounts outstanding, including $909,000,000,000 (just under a trillion dollars) for the Fed’s Agency Mortgage-Backed Securities Purchase Program alone. That’s almost $3,000 for every American.”
Grayson on the Fed audit
Calhoun, we’ll be waiting for your angry denunciations of these rather more “significant costs to taxpayers.” We won’t hold our breath, though. But that is the sort of completely undemocratic Wall Street/government collusion that Occupy rallies people against. And judging from recent surveys, Occupy is getting results.
I guess when you Occupy something that you do not own, who gives a rat’s ass that it gets broken or destroyed. Believe me the only thing that we will remember about you ass clowns in two weeks (after you are tear-gassed out of the park), will be the bills, the clean-up, and the repairs.
They broke the lawn!
Just wondering, TimmyJ and calhoun, after Fox News washes your brain, do you throw it in the dryer or hang it on the line?
Bob, if I spray you with something that causes temporary blindness and severe pain, that’s battery. If I hit you with a large metal frame, that’s battery. Seattle police have done both to peaceful demonstrators, not to protect themselves, but to gain compliance.
You wrote, “By the way, in my book “peaceful demonstrators” do not disobey the law.” They do when they’re engaging in civil disobedience.
If you engage in civil disobedience then you must be willing to accept the consequences.
etaoin shrdlu:
How many of these occupiers/homeless will you be inviting home with you tonight?
Please update us on how many you host, and how that’s going for you over then next few months until Spring… cause you know, actions speak louder than postings on a message board….
SCCC is a school first, people pay to go to school there, and we pay a lot to subsidize their schooling. If the activity of the occupy movement is disruptive or makes one single student uncomfortable, the school has a duty to rectify the situation. It is not their job to pander to the hot movement of the day, it is their job to prepare people for the next phases of their life. Te school owes the occupy movement absolutely nothing. In fact, it is the occupy movement that owes the school for disruption, damage, etc. etc. etc.
Why the hell they are occupying a school is beyond me. Move on, move on now.
A neighbor
SCCC class of 1994
Hey Etaoin, you gonna join the 500 strong at the 24 hour teach in tonight? If you are, you better start the phone tree…. I was down there 10 minutes ago and counted 8 people in the courtyard (and 6 of them were hauling garbage and outhouses around).
Man way to go with the hearts and minds, well done!
Theprez: Of course. And the consequences should be arrest and prosecution, not assault and battery. It’s frightening how many otherwise-reasonable people think it’s okay for police to torture or harm peaceful demonstrators simply to gain compliance. Bob Calhoun is a thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate person, and even he believes that it’s acceptable for police to douse people with chemical agents simply because they’ve passively refused an order to stop jaywalking or blocking a sidewalk.
Regarding rats, on December 5, 2011, Jeb Wyman of Seattle Central wrote:
The GA minutes do not support a group that is intending to be peaceful or passive and their actions on the street certainly do not either.
Ha! Your fellow rednecks in the Republican Party *wish* they had the support that Occupy has garnered, in just three short months.
In recent polls, twice as many people agree with the underlying reason for the Occupy protests as approve of the GOP. I’ll wager that Occupy’s breaking the lawn at SCCC won’t change that much.
Btw, I just walked in the door from hanging at the plaza at SCCC, where at least a couple dozen people were participating in the teach-in and other groups were working on packing up. Not too bad on a cold Friday night.
Now TimmyJ, why don’t you go look for some fresh poop on the sidewalk to get yourself all worked up about again.
Get a bigger fedora, dude. That tiny one is cutting off circulation to your brain.
Spent some time after midnight – some facts
1. Talking organizing working groups, 23 people in a good discusion, and very cold
2. All the compostable material from the site had been trucked to a small farm -garden space. Not just abandoned, and done by Occupy.
3. Occupy is paying Cleans Scapes, NOT the College or the city.
4. All the wood was loaded by Occupy labor on a giant truck for recycle company the recycles old pallets, etd. the company owner was crew chief, and very effient as he laded a gieant dump truck with ALL the wood. No cost to city or SCCC, and very, very green
5. Just a few tents left, all areas raked, swept and tended to by Occupy labor…
6. De-camp orderly, timely and ALL facilitated by Occupy labor and money.
No hysteria, no plans to riot, very orderly. Fueled by coffee and Crispy Creme in BITTER cold. The word is that a lot was learned, and that the homeless and other street folks has been very difficult to deal with, creating a social center that was not an original goal…
Next – high on the agenda, a well fed Christmas Party …. oh Seattle, so complex.
There are obviously hundreds of VERY committed and now much bettter trained people in Occupy, including major labor resources, church and educator support. They are not going away anytime soon.
It ends with 23 sitting around on a cold night bitching about the truly homeless?
Using your own words, what a effient giant waste of energy and time!
Also no points here at all on the cleanup until all your shit stickers and graffiti is removed and the college lawn is fixed.
Yes, until they is, no points from the very literate Good4you.
Thanks for the update, Jake. Quite thoughtful.
And you are absolutely right. We are not going away — not until our government is of, by, and for the people, and not the corporations. On the contrary, we will only get stronger. It’s gonna be a long, hot spring.
The wealthy elites have defrauded the American people and ruined our economy, but there is change in the air. And at 99-to-1, the odds are on our side.
Phil, once again, a very inflammatory and inappropriate word: “torture.”
I agree with you that it would be better if the police arrested/prosecuted lawbreakers instead of using pepper spray…but I think you might agree that this is impractical/impossible when they are dealing with a large number of people ignoring their lawful requests. It would require many more officers, and there would be physical resistance from some, with probably some fighting and resulting injuries. Would this be preferable to using pepper spray to gain compliance from a mob of people? By the way, I have seen no examples of the police using pepper spray to stop jaywalking or to clear a sidewalk…..in the demonstration downtown about a month ago (on E Pine and 5th Ave), they were clearing a major intersection at rush hour, after repeated requests for the protestors to move on to the sidewalk.
About your claim that police are “hitting” people with a “large metal frame,” I assume you are talking about their technique of using their bicycles to push back a crowd which is, say, blocking access to a police vehicle (as happened at the Chase incident)….this technique is not “hitting” and is not “battery.” Of course, they could use pepper spray in such situations, so the bicycle technique is more humane. Do you have any suggestions as to other ways to control an angry mob in confrontations like at Chase? (aside from arrest/prosecution that is).
We usually disagree on police and other issues, but that’s OK…you too are an intelligent and compassionate person, and I respect your opinions.
Yes, I realize there are a few nights every year (the really cold ones) when every shelter bed is taken. But I would like to ask, when you are full and have to send the person away, how do you know that there is not a bed available elsewhere? Is there any kind of centralized place which tracks where there are beds available on any given night? If not, I think that would be very helpful…and, also, some kind of free transportation to take a denied person to a shelter where there is a bed.
Even with the best shelter system, there will always be many who don’t make any effort to get themselves to one, because there will always be many who choose to continue their alcohol/drug habits.
If it’s really true that OS is paying for Cleanscapes to haul away all the trash, then this is the first responsible thing they have done since they started camping there. But where does the money come from? Certainly not from the campers…
And are they cleaning up all the graffiti, not only at SCCC but in surrounding streets? And I hope they are renting a pressure-washing machine today, because the camp REALLY needs a thorough cleaning.
Phil, you wrote, “If I hit you with a large metal frame, that’s battery.” So, kind of like the Occupy Seattle camper who threw a metal trash can at a local business employee when he mistook them for someone else? Oh yeah, you people are sooooo peaceful.
I am so relieved to finally have that violent group of individuals of the campus I pay tuition to use. That being said, the movement did win back some of my respect for cleaning up after themselves when they moved on instead of leaving it as disgusting as it has been for the last six weeks.
It’s true that I’ve had some frustrations with OS, but I don’t think it’s fair to fault the movement. All the issues I’ve had to deal with have been with the junkies/dealers and ne’er-do-wells who decided to take advantage of the huge Urban Campsite.
Perhaps in the future you all should work a little harder at separating yourselves from people who aren’t in it for the same reasons as you & are only there to cause problems.
“Phil, once again, a very inflammatory and inappropriate word: `torture.”‘
From Patrick Meighan’s first-hand account of LAPD officers’ actions when raiding the Occupy Los Angeles demonstration last week:
All that twisting and hyperextension sounds like torture to me. If the cops had strapped that man to a board and slowly turned a crank to twist his foot until he did what they wanted him to do, then would you consider it torture? Is it not so when they do it without the aid of machinery?
“I agree with you that it would be better if the police arrested/prosecuted lawbreakers instead of using pepper spray”
That’s putting it mildly. To do otherwise is an abomination of the rule of law. Please, please, consider the implications of allowing police officers to judge guilt and harm people as a result of their judgement, then to let those people whose violations were judged to be so egregious as to warrant that harm to simply walk away. We must maintain a check on the power of our police. It is not their duty to judge guilt or impose punishment.
I think you might agree that this is impractical/impossible when they are dealing with a large number of people ignoring their lawful requests.
No, I disagree. It’s entirely possible, and it’s precisely what they should do. It’s what many police have done for many years to people engaging in civil disobedience in places like the United States. It is not what happens in police states.
There’s no such thing as a lawful request. Typically, when police request something, they do so because they do not have the authority to demand it, and they hope to trick someone into voluntarily complying.
“[Arresting peaceful demonstrators instead of assaulting and battering them] would require many more officers, and there would be physical resistance from some, with probably some fighting and resulting injuries. Would this be preferable to using pepper spray to gain compliance from a mob of people?”
Yes. That’s precisely what the law requires them to do. That’s what we pay them to do.
“By the way, I have seen no examples of the police using pepper spray to stop jaywalking or to clear a sidewalk…..in the demonstration downtown about a month ago (on E Pine and 5th Ave), they were clearing a major intersection at rush hour, after repeated requests for the protestors to move on to the sidewalk.”
1) Jaywalking is what each person who remained in the intersection against the signal was guilty of. 2) As I’ve told you repeatedly, I observed the police using pepper spray on many people who already moved to or never left the sidewalk that day.
“About your claim that police are “hitting” people with a “large metal frame,” I assume you are talking about their technique of using their bicycles to push back a crowd”
Sort of. When a cop does this, he doesn’t do it to a crowd, he does it to the person in front of him. That’s battery, and the police generally get away with it. If I did it to someone else, particularly if that someone else was a cop, I would likely be prosecuted for it.
“Do you have any suggestions as to other ways to control an angry mob in confrontations like at Chase? (aside from arrest/prosecution that is).”
If someone is suspected of violating the law and needs to be stopped, he or she should be arrested, then should have a chance to defend him or herself in court.
“We usually disagree on police and other issues, but that’s OK…you too are an intelligent and compassionate person, and I respect your opinions.”
Thank you for that comment. I disagree with plenty of people I respect. I value those conflicts, because they often help shape my opinions.
You lost all credibility when Jennifer Fox said she lost 1 twin during 1 altercation with police, then the other twin during another altercation with police, and that a medical doctor told her pepper spray got to the latter twin’s heart. The most ridiculous story EVER told, spread all over the world, backed by OS bloggers. Ridiculous proof that OS is nothing but a bunch of opportunistic liars. Way to RUIN what many of us wanted to support. Meanwhile, take my donation meant for food and use it to educate Jennifer Fox about how wombs work.
Why castigate a person with a ton of problems, who tried to fit in, has tried again and again — and failed.
I hope she can get her life together at some point.
Occupy did not conger her story, she was pepper sprayed in the face. Except for you, the rest of us have moved on on that one.
A blip, a moment- means nothing.
And I have not been part of the Occupy, just spent some time to get a grip on this. GREAT conversation with 6-7 people. Hours and hours, if we were at the Sorrento, dressed up a bit, sipping gin – would have been a true Seattle salon of opinions and manners. Hot tea, hard cold chairs, and bitter cold – to be remembered. (could have been a hot date too, just to be honest, tons of eye contact and flirting)
The “general population”. Is it a community college or a prison?
Love to have the local press dig into who is gonna foot the bill for the Cleanscape hauls. Thousand$$$$ (Come on O/S out with it… no secrets are you’ll be as dirty as the 1%)
A PRESSURE WASHING machine, Calhoun? Who are you, Sergeant Sphincter of the Dirt Patrol®?
“no secrets are you’ll be as dirty as the 1%”?? Very well put, TimmyJ.
You have used the fedora comment before.
How do you figure the odds are 99 to 1. You can call yourself anything you want but you don’t represent the 99 percent. You represent 1% against 1%.
George, No I haven’t and plan to never be at any demonstration, totallly not my scene. Thanks for confirming my view on protesters and their Gimme Gimme Gimme attitude. “Someone else will pay for it”. You nailed that one alright.
Gimmeee Gimmee..Gimmee…Take Take Take. What did these campers give this community besides heartache? What did they give back? nada.
“You have used the fedora comment before.”
Yes, cerebral hypoxia from undersized fedoras seems to be a widespread problem among anti-Occupy commenters.
“You represent 1% against 1%.”
Hardly. As I noted in an earlier comment, the Field Poll of 1,000 registered California voters, published Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2011, shows that large majorities agree with the reasons for Occupy’s efforts:
“While voters are about evenly divided in their identification with the Occupy movement, there is greater consensus when Californians are asked whether they agree or disagree with the underlying reason for these protests, with 58% majority saying they agree with it, while 32% disagree.
“Majorities of voters in virtually every gender, age, race/ethnicity, household income and region of the state agree with the underlying reason for the protests, with African-Americans (73% agreement) and voters under age 30 (69%) most in agreement.”
99% of these jokers just marched away!
(Leaving 1% for SPD to clean up later)
The soothing sounds of cars again on Broadway (and not some ass clown doing a mike check)…
Hope, that’s what.
Hope that Americans can see through the lies of the 1% and the politicians they’ve bought. Hope that our fellow countrymen and countrywomen want justice for widespread, systemic fraud on Wall Street — fraud enabled by the Fed. Hope that we really care about our country being a democracy rather than a wholly owned subsidiary of Goldman Sachs. Hope that this time, those Americans who seek justice and democracy will not be cowed by threats of police violence or seduced by the hollow promises of “Hope” and “Change” from corrupted political parties.
I’m deeply grateful to Occupy and totally confident in even greater things ahead from the movement. In contrast, upd, your mean-spirited, bullshit comments aren’t worth their pixels on the page.
I’ve been a student at Seattle Central for two years and I know the school well. During this summer quarter my classmate would walk by a specific place where there is a dead mouse or rat that is becoming bones with a shrinking amount of fur. It was there for over three months, dead the entire time, and had been dead for quite a while. This is in a place that is not even hidden under a desk or cabinet. Just out in the open.
I’ll try to get a pic by Monday.
You sound sad, they left with no fan fare, no police riot … seems they cut a deal with the college … landlord -tennant …. sorta conversation. Take your stuff, get a dumpster, sweep and rake …
Nice work, oh, but the jackals and republicans (same idea) are not happy.
Thanks, first place is great ..
And get some pictures of dog shit somewhere .. since that was another vague accusation of silly bureaucrats, very overpaid for their common place PR only observations, Public Health embarrassed themselves on this one. Concerned about “personal hygiene” – boy, in a down dress city, middle of the winter with layers of clothing on everyone, what does that mean?
Seems you are experiencing cerebral hypoxia as well but it might be because of what your head is stuck up.
Agree with and represent do not mean the same thing.
Hey Phil, I too value our “back-and-forth,” as your comments make me think more deeply about these issues…not that we will ever agree completely, but maybe we can each learn from the other.
When I criticized your use of the word “torture,” I was thinking mainly of the events in Seattle, and as far as I know there have been no incidents here which would get even close to torture…do you know otherwise? The LAPD is, of course, infamous for using strongarm tactics in the past, and it’s possible they over-stepped their bounds in the incident described in your post. On the other hand, I’m not sure I can totally believe the accounts of the protestors there…in my opinion, some protestors are prone to drama and over-exaggeration of what actually happened, in their effort to make the police look as evil as possible.
I agree that when police use pepper spray to gain compliance from a mob acting unlawfully, they are to some extent making a judgment about guilt. But I don’t think they are doing this as “punishment,” rather as a technique to get control of the situation and to force people to obey the law. Your approach….arrest/prosecution…is just not practical and for sure would result in more violence/injuries…can you not see that? Also, my guess is that the average protestor would prefer to be pepper-sprayed and allowed to leave the scene, instead of being arrested, spending at least a few hours in jail, possible prosecution and a permanent criminal record.
Maybe we are lucky in Seattle to have police officers who, for the most part, act appropriately. They certainly have exercised restraint at the OS camp…where police in other major cities have raided their camps and destroyed them, the SPD has (wisely) allowed the SCCC camp to wither on the vine.