E Pine from Bellevue to Melrose (Image: CHS)
Another half-block of Pike/Pine has been purchased by an Eastside developer with plans to create a new mixed-use development that will likely push out several long-running commercial tenants and residents of the apartments currently part of the old buildings along E Pine and Melrose.
Bookshop Spine and Crown posted about the project to its Facebook page this morning:
Yep. They sold the building out from under us. June 2013, the whole block closes. That’s Mud Bay, Edies, Le Frock, Wall of Sound, Spine and Crown, Scout, Vutique, and Bauhaus. Our spaces will be a hole in the ground thereafter.
A person with knowledge of the deal said the developer acquired the parcels at Pine and Melrose with an eye toward leveling all of the buildings and starting fresh but has had second thoughts after witnessing the backlash against the lack of preservation in this development at 10th and Union.
(Image: John Feit with permission to CHS)
Details of the sale of the six parcels owned since 2006 by an entity called M&P Partnership are not yet available via county records. It appears the developer is the Madison Development Group. You can see their mixed-use projects in the area here. On that page, Madison lists a ‘Melrose & Pine’ project including 16,240 square-feet of retail and 98,794 square-feet of residential space. In the background lurks a full slate of development incentives in place to encourage the developer to include character preservation in their Pike/Pine plans.
It appears the developer intends to put some of that incentive opportunity to work. Here’s the project description from an early filing with the Department of Planning and Development:
Construct new 7-story mixed use building apartment and commercial with 2 floors of underground parking in conjunction with identified character structures in the Pike/Pine Overlay District.
The filing lists Hewitt Architects as the firm working on the project’s design.
Our attempts to reach Madison Development representatives have not yet been successful.
CHS has learned that the sale and the project plan was announced to commercial tenants this morning and that stores in the area were told they could face closure by June 13th if the planned development goes forward. “The developers want to keep the facades, but the interiors will be gutted and an underground parking garage added, so basically, the block will be a hole in the ground for 18 months following the June closure,” one store owner told CHS.
Smaller structures will also likely be lost including 1524 Melrose, one of the last mound-mounted houses in the area.
The deal is likely to be one of the most expensive real estate transactions in Capitol Hill history. Late last month, an investor swept in with $14.9 million to buy the large BMW campus of buildings between Pike and Pine with plans to develop a mixed-use building at the site of the former auto showroom. Another sale is expected soon for the Sunset Electric auto row-era building at 11th and Pine. Meanwhile, another showroom is on the market as E Pike’s Mercedes dealership will be on the move by 2013.
Not every project includes demolishing the old buildings that come along with the Capitol Hill land. Hunters Capital this week announced it had acquired the building home to Area 51 for $3.85 million. Hunters has said its plans are to restore the building’s facade and preserve the building’s character.
Nearby, work is underway on a mixed-use development at Pine and Bellevue.
Included in the Melrose and Pine acquisition is the 1916 masonry building currently home to Mud Bay, Edie’s, Le Frock, Vutique, Scout, Wall of Sound, and Spine and Crown as well as residents of the upper floor apartments, the mound house, the 1917 Dirty Jane’s building home to Warren Knapp Gallery, the 1915 Melrose Building that houses Bauhaus, the worn Emerald City Inn apartments and a Bellevue Ave parking lot.
This just puts a cap on a really shitty week for me.
Shame! Shame! Boooo!
So what was the point of the Pike/Pine overlay district, if not to save buildings like these?
I’m not usually cranky about development in the neighborhood but this is bullshit.
This is sad to read. I hope they have a public hearing for the review of the development and I hope the neighborhood comes out to support keeping the existing space.
More human cubes! More people farms! More cheap buildings with no character!
Really though. Sad.
This is bullshit.
*dies inside*
Bauhaus should be a historic site – it really is part of Capitol Hill’s identity. The thought of it being gone with the rest of the wonderful businesses on the block in June is deeply unsettling.
These guys are, hands down, one of the worst developers in the area. Everything they’ve done is a total shitshow of low quality, cookie-cutter architectural vomit. They seriously should just fuck off and die.
I’m generally pro-development, but this is heartbreaking. I can think of no better way to strip the soul from that part of Capitol Hill. I really hope something can be done to preserve these businesses in their current form … especially Bauhaus.
I will fight this tooth and nail. CHS — I know you will post info about design review meetings. Please help the community stay involved in the plans for this site.
No. No. No.
Seriously. The more I think about this the more upset I get. Please let us know what we can do, I’ve never been involved in the process of fighting these things, but this block is one I’d fight for.
This is a very disappointing development in Capitol Hill. Not every building is worth saving but those properties are very important. Sad news.
I agree. I’ve never participated in design reviews or the like but I will sure as hell show up for this.
I’m not surprised it’s an east side developer. They could care less about how the outcome affects our neighborhood.
This is Capitol Hill’s heritage being destroyed so some douchbag in Bellevue can buy a new Humvee for his son who destroyed the last two. Truly awful!
Time to fight back!
We don’t need this block turned into condos/tanning salons/dry cleaners and likely, empty retail space.
OR, another goddamned, gulag designed watering hole for Eastside twats and assholes to puke in.
I consider myself an advocate for density and walkable, transit friendly communities, but this is absurd!
This development would cannibalized the exact type of dense, walkable development that makes this neighborhood so great. They would tear down a small apartment building with a great mix of small independent shops and offices. This area is already the exact definition of mixed used development that density advocates argue for. No need to tear it down.
The fact that the developer is planning to keep the old, Auto row style facades is a complete perversion of the Pike/Pine overlay zone intent. The focus of density on Capitol Hill should be on infill (parking lots, run down and underused structures, old auto oriented low-rise development) not evicting and destroying the existing development that defines the density and character of the neighborhood that the developers find so alluring in the first place.
This is a complete disaster of urban planning and should be opposed in the strongest sense. I only hope that the Capitol Hill Chamber of Commerce has something to say about this.
These folks are the team behind one of the worst projects I’ve seen in town, the 23rd and Madison debacle of a complex housing Safeway. Actually, it’s one of the worst mixed use projects I have ever seen.
Hopefully CHS will work hard to keep us all up to date on the public design review meeting for this project. Maybe this developer can hire Liz Dunn to consult? This is a high profile location, hope they realize this and aim hire and maybe hire a very good architect and surprise us all
Terrible! So, so, so terrible.
In addition to losing architectural character in favor of what I assume will be an ass ugly cube, we are also losing some really great businesses! Rent in new construction isn’t cheap – so I really worry about if these businesses will be able to relocate?
If this does indeed go through – GO TO THE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD MEETINGS!!!! Developers need to get the message that the residents of Cap Hill are not ok with losing beloved businesses and gaining 6 story eyesores.
This is bullshit.
to say these buildings are part of capitol hills identity means you dont know the heck youre talking about. the buildings are old, they smell inside and out. nothing is meant to last forever. the character of capitol hill is not in the buildings but in the people. i been here on this hill since the 70s. i watched it change from mostly gay to mostly punk rock to mostly microsoft employees. all i can say is most of the newer buildings are a nice change from the slummy nastiness that is the pike pine cooridor. i can understand that business owners would be upset but they all had the oppurtunity to band together and buy the buildings they are in and didnt.
I recommend a black magic bombardment against the developer.
Pike/Pine Urban Neighborhood Council – P/PUNC – please email [email protected] and ask to be added to the list. Look for notice of a meeting around the building conservation issues in the neighborhood.
This is suuuuuccchhh BULLSHIT! I am actually finally really disgusted by this, that corner or Bellevue and Pine was a god send this is a travesty. Where can we sign a petition to keep this from being a complete destruction and rape of such a wonderful building and series of shops?
If Seattle get enough people to speak out, in writing or voice
mail messages, would they have to listen?
uhh as someone who works for one of these businesses I can tell you the owners did not “havethe oppurtunity to band together and buy the buildings they are in and didnt.”
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000790192680
I’m not reflexively not anti-development: for instance, it was sad to see the 500 block of Pine razed, but I could understand that those buildings looked like collapsing deathtraps. This block, though, seems solidly constructed and vibrantly occupied. Bauhaus, in particular, should be a citywide treasure and the thought of it being gutted is really too much to contemplate.
Fight for those buildings guys!
Like everyone else, I certainly don’t want to see these very important building destroyed.
But the silver lining is that P/PUNC and others were able to get the Overlay District in place before this project started. If they hadn’t this would probably already be the next People’s Parking Lot.
We all need to put some SERIOUS community pressure and scrutiny on this project to make sure it fits in our neighborhood.
To be honest, buying a huge site that is almost entirely covered in character buildings right after the Overlay district is implemented is pretty ballsy. Either the developer really thinks they can negotiate a successful new/old project, or they are completely out of touch.
They are going to take a building which currently houses several businesses on the ground floor, and apartments above, and replace it with one of these new-fangled “mixed use developments”?
Other project ideas:
Tear down a school, and replace it with an “educational center”.
Tear down a church, and replace it with a “community spiritual gathering space”
Tear down house, and replace it with a “single-family domicile”
+1
E-mailing that will result in a bounce. You need to go here to apply for membership to the group:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/ppunc
+1
This is not really new density. I would be shocked if the new Floor Area Ratio (FAR) of the planned new development would be much better than what already exists here. With two stories of underground parking, and the larger apartment sizes favored by developers, this might not be much more density than we already have now.
When you do get in touch with Madison Development Group please let them know that are universally hated on Capitol Hill today. Thanks.
The developer apparently has no respect for the existing neighborhood, its culture and the long-standing businesses that people in this neighborhood appreciate and frequent often.
exactly. preserving the facade while gutting the interior and adding another 4 floors of aesthetically incongruent architechture is NOT preservation. This hacks me off, big time.
Just tried the email and it bounced back saying I don’t have permission. Can you repost another way to get on that mailing list? This development must be stopped.
anything for sale can be bought by whoever wants to buy it. if you dont want it then you dont buy it. so what ever
Umm, yeah all these businesses found out about the sale today, no one was ever offered an opportunity to buy it themselves.
This makes me feel so sad inside. I feel like a piece of my upbringing is being washed away by greed and disrespect for the places we come from. Preservation brings richness to many while developments like this benefit only a greedy few.
as a non-employee of any business except my own, i can assure you the buildings for sale were available to be sold and as a result of their availability, were sold to the highest bidder. it has been known since 2006 that m&p was looking to get rid of their new aquisition. so thats 6 years to get your ducks in a row. acting like this is a surprise is silly. look around you and see that you are surrounded by ugly old nasty stinky disgusting buildings that should have been razed decades ago. cudos that someone is going to remedy that to some small extent.
That requires a Google account. I believe that to subscribe to the list via e-mail, one can send an empty message to [email protected].
Here’s an example of a site they developed on Queen Anne. It’s hideous.
http://www.mdgllc.net/projects/mixed/002.htm
And sadly, it’s the best of all the completed projects in their portfolio. The rest are Home Depots, strip malls, and office parks. None of them appear to have any character, quality or soul =(
Ive been going to bauhaus since before I moved here! I love all the neighborhood stores that surround the block. they are probably going to make hideous buildings with through the roof rent. Theres already so many vacant cookie cutter buildings! They need to stop tearing down beautiful buildings and get out of here.
hey dude, that is a seattlite and not a transplant idiot like most of you complaining here. freddy copula from beacon hill. he is my friend and he is from here and raised here and went to asa mercer jr high school. al you out of staters who presume to be seattle folks are out of line. go back to oklahoma if you dont like the vision for the future here. pike pine is not a historic area, the only thing historic is kurt cobain scoring smack at the corner of pike and bellevue.
I think this is good news. Half the people posting here don’t seem to understand what this will do for the overall value of real estate and the business’ long term in our neighborhood. This is good news!
One clarification, the businesses will be open at least another year, when they talk about “June 13th” I believe they mean 2013.
However, this is your chance to step up and support these small businesses! You want your fav record/book store to stay in business? Can’t imagine shoe shopping without Edie’s? Can’t imagine Capitol Hill without Bauhaus? Then support them in this coming year so they can afford to relocate! Staying in business means a never ending list of costs… blerg.
What a sad, sad day.
Hey jseattle,
This is all very upsetting for a number of reasons, the simplest of which is that I live in one of the sold buildings and I’m reading about this for the first time here. Can you say more about this line in your post: “Smaller structures will also likely be lost including 1524 Melrose, one of the last mound-mounted houses in the area.” Are you just speculating, or is that in a plan you’ve seen?
Many thanks.
What exactly is ugly and stinky about this building?? Have you been inside? As someone who frequents Mud Bay, Bauhaus, and Eddies, I can vouch that these are well maintained and successful spaces. I’ve been in dump coffee shops, I assure you that Bauhaus is not one of them, and that the character of the building directly contributes to the success of their business. As many others have said, this is not an argument for saving everything that is old, truly there are some buildings on the hill that could go and the character of the neighborhood would not be affected, but this is surely not one of them.
I shall be sad indeed if Bauhaus and Edie’s go away. Bauhaus in particular is a gem.
I really love some of the development i am seeing in my Hood. The Melrose market is a great example of development with style, and class, along with preservation of wonderful buildings. This however, is an example of Gentrification, and i hope they do not level this iconic spot on the Hill!
I’m sorry, but your ignorance is laughable. You clearly have never been outside of the US…..go to Europe, and you will find many “old and dirty” buildings that have been restored and bought back to their former glory…..and they are are wonderfull. Look at Melrose Market….classic example…and i’m glad that building was not turned into an ugly condo building…
That got me wondering how Europe deals with new developments. They have structures that are much older.
There are always public reviews for these projects, you can go and complain, but it won’t make any difference…
Let’s chain ourselves to the buildings!
As a member of P/PUNC, I remember a simular project proposed several years ago by the family that had long owned the Bauhaus building and the mound-house behind it. That project was much smaller and it never made it to the EDG. This new project is twice the size and needs close community review.
I own a small business in upper Pike/Pine. A neighboring developer (based on Capitol Hill) has an option to buy my 1905 building from my elderly landlord. My understanding is that he hopes to redevelope my end of the block after he finishes another project going through EDG this month. Will this happen and if so when? Who knows, time will tell. This is a known business risk that I must live with.
ok so its a picture of fred on someone elses page.
Sadly it probably can’t be saved. There’s several different ways it needs to qualify as a historical landmark, which is the only real way you could stop things like this from happening.
yes i have been in bauhaus. im not saying that the businesses arent doing there best to keep their stores looking neat and tidy. what im saying is the buildings are old and ugly and should have been torn down long before bauhaus and the rest were even in business. the idea that a building is somehow important is nuts. just because europe is filled with old decrepit buildings is no reason we should be. a lot of our ancestors left europe for good reasons and that may just be one of them.
DISlike. Grr. This from the Madison Development site: “We value results: Madison has completed over 50 projects with a combined asset value of over $400 million.” What kind of soulless jackal writes a sentence like that? The same kind who replaces interesting and worthwhile urban tapestry with chipboard rabbit warrens modeled in Excel, apparently.
by the way… the plan is to keep the facade and replace the insides with much needed parking for residents and modern apartments. im looking forward to it. i was hoping against hope that they would be condos and i could buy one and have a place to park my car without having to go to the police station to get a sticker for my window or worrying that i may get towed away, as has happened on too many occasions to mention.
How can we make this stop? Is there a town meeting that we can express how retarded this is? Someone we can yell at? possibly sabotage the project?
Sign up here to fight this issue: http://groups.google.com/group/ppunc?hl=en
+1
I couldn’t agree with you more. We must turn out in mass at the design review meetings.
Not in my backyard! Keep housing supply low, keep the environment classic. That will keep rents down and turn people away when landlords run out of room, no matter how much money they have!
We were here first.
Homie, what are you talking about re: smelly? What does it smell like? Doody diapers? Rotten food? Old fish? I smell none of those things inside or outside this building. Bauhaus smells like coffee. WOS smells like records. Mudbay kind of smells like wet dog, but, that’s the closest thing to “smelly” that I can identify. And what band of small business owners has the money, or the credit, to buy a building? And why is the onus on them to incorporate buying a building into their business plan? GTFOH! Why have you been living here since the ’70s if you think everything is shit and needs to be razed? Shenanigans on that claim.
Slumy nastyness? That stretch of businesses capped by Bauhaus is one of the nicest places on the hill. I but all my pet supplies from Mud Bay…nothing smelling about that building, Wall of Sound OR Bauhaus.
If they close bauhaus or WOS I am going to have a nervous breakdown.
a true voice of reason…
It’s this complete takeover of the character and cultural integrity that gives me one more reason to leave Seattle. This is a huge disappointment to not only me, but anyone who actually cares about our neighborhood. I am not opposed to growth or development, but this is ridiculous.
Thanks Phil and Joel for help in how to mail P/PUNC!
well, at least Hewitt is a decent architect.. that’s the only bright spot I see in this murky turd
Omg. I hate this. I’m abandoning ship. Goodbye lovely barista, and the only cafe in town with such amazing light you can sit anywhere and doodle from day to night.
Europe has far more stringent laws about protecting historic buildings and preserving the character of neighbourhoods. It is also worth noting that small independent shops are far more common in European cities, from corner shops selling milk, newspapers etc to small independent pharmacies, boutiques, butchers and bakeries. As a native Londoner it is incredible to me that Seattle, which has so few historic buildings and such a short history, can be so cavalier about tearing down those that it does have. Has it occurred to you that if all the 500 year old buildings in Europe had been torn down by greedy developers after 100 years there wouldn’t actually be any 500 year old buildings now?
My heart just drooped to the floor. WTF! I am considering to move far away from all of the BS. I loved many places and now they are gone. This town useto be great. Now it is just a fraction of what it use-to be. I have been patient with the progress. Now it has gone too far. I am just hoping that some day the diverse people and artists that made Seattle great can come back. I do not see that happening. Rents go up and hubs of great minds that get together go away. This is Bauhaus. I have seen many people start there craft there and go places with it. Seattle please stop messing up good things and leave Seattle alone. Gir, I am mad, and =( ! HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS STOP? Any suggestions? <3
[email protected].
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/ppunc
Thanks to Phil and Joel below for clarifying how to contact P/PUNC to join the list-serv.
Have the landlords run out of room? Last time I checked several of Joule’s retail spaces sat empty for more than two years…
Hear, hear! Relocating will cost a bunch… there’s little chance we’ll be able to afford to stay.
Note that it’s a plus, not a minus, between “ppunc” and “subscribe.” I don’t know what happened to my mailto: link.
Maybe not dead…but this won’t be the last of these developments I’m sure. We’re on a slow road to gentrification. It makes me think of the north end of Broadway and how the development up there has pretty much killed the spirit that place had when Minnies was still around. Once Bauhaus is gone I think the area will probably feel the same. I guess the area around Neumos is still alive?
obvioulsly you werent here before bauhaus. im born and raised. lived here all my life. that street was junkie heaven in the 70s and 80s and even into the 90s. old trolls cruised there looking for what old trolls look for. most of the apartments in the area were shooting galleries. there was one building that the door was always opened and you could go into most any of the apartments and score. you dont know what history is. most of us moved away from there and sold our houses so we wouldnt have to put up with the crime that is the result of heroine junkies and speed freaks.
For those of you that want to fight the development, the only real option is to have the buildings designated as historic landmarks. The Design Review Board has limited power and the developer can still squeeze through the process without an obligation to preserve the buildings.
http://www.seattle.gov/neighborhoods/preservation/landmarks.
Unlike most of the posters, I am no fan of Bauhaus but am glad it exists for the others who frequent it. I am sad to see that more of my neighborhood is being taken over by cookie–cutter developers who want to make everything as bland as the neighborhoods they’re from. Independents won’t be able to afford shops in a new building, middle and low-income people won’t be able to afford to live there. They are taking over the neighborhood we worked so hard to make special.
Most likely, if it’s not chain clothing stores et al., it will be new bars, and I’m so tired of everyone coming from far and wide just to get trashed on Capitol Hill and misbehave. People LIVE here, it’s not just a place for you morons to throw up and to go to gay bars to gawk. Ruin your own places, and please stay out of ours.
This strikes a major blow to the awesomeness of Capitol Hill. That building, those businesses, they have always added a LOT of character to the Hill. Now to be replaced by probably *another* fucking wine bar, and boutique, and perhaps a Baby Gap. I wish the community could block this, convince the city to deem this building as a historical monument or something, but the city seems increasingly unwilling to work with us on saving our vibrant community from the monoculture of yuppie hell.
is charley tuna a PR shill for the developer? christ! look, smart guy, some businesses, which are completely viable as businesses, still don’t make very much money. and often, their owners are cool with that. but those kinds of businesses (often the best part of the character of the neighborhood) can’t play this “survival of the richest” game. if you want a town filled with nothing but coffee shops, salons, and insurance offices designed by and for yuppies, then hang out with charley tuna! hooray for public relations!
Count me in.
This particular block of businesses is what makes my neighborhood walkable and liveable. If Wall of Sound, Spine and Crown, Edies, Scout, Vutique leave the neighborhood or go out of business, I will have to to to Ballard, West Seattle, Georgetown to patronize similar businesses. and I will have to drive in my car to get there in any reasonable amount of time. Independent local retail and iconic community gathering spot – interesting and affordable clothes and shoes, recycled and re-purposed goods – can’t get the same experience shopping on the Internet….If I have to leave Capitol Hill to find this sort of experience, my neighborhood fails to serve me and I get back into my automobile…..
I love my neighborhood, and many things make this so. I LOVE BAUHAUS,It is unique to the hill and I consider the city and it’s residents lucky to have such a place to go. The idea that a developer is planning to DEMOLISH IT is a CRIME. People do not want strip mall storefronts and Chain stores, if we wanted that, we would live in the suburbs. Demolishing that building would be taking a wrecking ball to the city’s character and I hope the neighborhood doesn’t have to suffer such an event. Losing the strip that housed the CHA CHA, Bimbo’s, Kincora Pub etc. is a permanent scar to the area and if the new owner submits the Bauhaus building to a similar fate, the damage will irreversible to the area and the residents.
You know, I’ve always dug that building.
Not everything has to have the sterility of a medical center. We love what we have, we don’t need another fake upscale coffee shop. I understand that you may like the sterile sheen of a plastic surface, but as a human with a soul, I prefer what my Bauhaus provides. A HUMAN experience. It’s filled with love. You can pump as much heat as you want into one of those new developments, but they always feel cold. Because they have no soul, and no life. They are made of metal and plastic with no intentions but to be filled and profited off. Claiming someone is ignorant because they aren’t rich is disgusting. I hope you can see past your money some day, it will lead you no where in life.
charley tuna says, “most of us moved away from there and sold our houses so we wouldnt have to put up with the crime that is the result of heroine junkies and speed freaks. “
That’s great! You solved your problem.
Luckily some enlightened property owner solved the problem for the rest of us and turned this into one of the best blocks on Capitol Hill. I’m sorry that you’re stuck in the past — we’re talking about the present here!
We want to keep the best block so that it doesn’t turn into a hellhole again and convince us to move away like you did.
This is the new face of Capitol Hill. Sadly. I almost forgot about the building with Man Ray etc. It’s just moving down the hill…Press, Terra Platta…and now whatever turd of a building that’s going to plop itself inside the facade of the Bauhaus building. I guess it’s not moving down, it’s downtown moving up…sad.
“pike pine is not a historic area”
Luckily, history isn’t limited to your sad youth.
Waking up from my cold for the first extended period in days just to read this news?
Eastisde developers do not care about neighborhoods. They do not care about character. They do not care about institutions (see B&O). They care about money. They don’t understand urban design or planning. They understand building parking structures with large scale chain restaurants on top of them. These shit holes are turning our neighborhood into a carbon copy of their blighted downtown.
I’d like to think that the community could stop this, but it would take a hell of a lot of effort. It’s doable, but it would take a lot of work. These “people” have money and resources and do not care about anything but dollar signs. If a neighborhood rallies and steps between these greedy drones and their money, then they’ll work even harder to destroy the neighborhood.
Jesus christ, why don’t they ruin their cities? There is a shit ton ripe for horrible re-development all over the Eastside.
No idea what you’re talking about. If it was an announcement on a derelict property, I might be able to guess. Explain yourself
Your logic doesn’t make sense my friend. Why are you talking about what that block or what Capitol Hill was like in the ’70s? People here are concerned about losing the space and beloved business it “currently” houses to unnecessary development. This block is not “currently” a magnet for junkies, trolls, crime etc. In fact, this block as it currently is, as the last comment above describes, is the type of development that keeps crime out of our neighborhoods.
And besides, junkies have the same right to be here that you do. If you live on the hill, you live amongst them, and you cope. They’re just as much a part of the hill’s identity as the gays, punks and microsoft employees.
Who’s gonna cap the freeway?
That’s where these ding-dongs should invest.
Way more ft to be had there.
Germany for example has tax breaks for preserving old buildings.