The sturm und drang aroused by CHS contributor seanandr’s “Cafe Ladro says nyet to your pet” post caused us to delve into Caffe Ladro‘s recent clarification of their pet policy. We spoke to a Ladro employee, who wished to remain anonymous but told us that the policy now posted on their window, disallowing animals in the cafe, was enacted after a visit from a Seattle & King County Public Health Official. The official observed a number of dogs in the cafe and made Ladro aware that animals are not allowed in eating and drinking establishments, save for service animals.
We spoke to Hilary Karasz, an Information Officer with Seattle & King County Public Health, who confirmed that per state statute, animals are not allowed in eating and/or drinking establishments (nor grocery stores), with the exception of service animals. Karasz advised that employees are able to inquire as to what functions a service animal serves but cannot ask for proof of disability and/or that a pet is indeed a service animal, per federal statute (the Americans with Disabilities Act). She acknowledged that this can create a loophole but stated that the public is charged with being “good citizens.”
Update (4/29) 2 pm: We spoke to Jeff Howell, Caffe Ladro’s General Manager, who stated that it has always been Ladro’s policy to disallow animals in to the cafes. However, a recent warning from Seattle & King County Public Health caused them to formalize and enforce this policy.
I used to work at a bakery/cafe and we insisted that dogs stay outside. What if one got away and strayed into the backroom bakery section? There wouldn’t be a door/barrier stopping it. That would be health code violation hell.
Dogs often remained outside while their people were inside. They got plenty of attention and affection from customers passing by. And I, being not much of a dog person, was really glad to have a pane of glass between us.
Dog owners need to take responsibility for not imposing their pets on others.
Agreed!
But, some dog lovers like to feed the dog while they are eating … a bit of this and that.
Do dogs drink coffee if trained?
I love all pets, including dogs. But I wouldn’t even think of bringing in my dog to any food establishment. Beyond the clear health and sanitary issues, it just isn’t polite. I was at a QFC and saw a dog owner let her dog just wander around on a long leash while she browsed the groceries. Meanwhile, the dog and the leash were blocking other customers and carts, and generally creating a nuisance.
Be a good neighbor and keep your pets at home or outside.
If that’s the case then I wonder how Norm’s in Fremont deals with the health department. One of their selling points is that they allow dogs inside and they definitely serve food and drinks in the same room.
Yes, I have emailed the health dept. in regards to the presence of dogs (among other animals) inside QFC. I imagine someone who cares about the cleanliness of restaurants/cafes did the same in this case…it does become ridiculous all the dogs we have to put up with..for awhile there were this two skinny white males in their 40s who would walk/carry their dog inside the broadway QFC–I always asked why their dog was there with them and they yelled very loudly “BUT I NEED HER SHE”S MINE” so i walked away and found a manager. It’s just gotten way out of control, too many folks who abuse the privilege have ruined it for the well-meaning dog owners out there.
I keep my dog out of the way, and have trained it to be quiet and unassuming..it took a long time and if you are not willing to have a “city-dog” than maybe you should get a lovely housecat instead. And sticking your dog in your purse and walking around with it is culturally grotesque so do not think it makes it acceptable–old meany from Oddfellows, which has way too many dogs on a sat morning for me.
Just because Norms is doing it doesn’t mean it isn’t against the law. Maybe you should report them to the Health Department.
Now that I know, maybe I will report it.
Or you can just take some responsiblity and be a good citizen.
Just to clarify: Caffe Ladro’s policy is to follow all city, state, and federal laws. We do not have a specific “policy to disallow animals,” but as part of our adherence to municipal health codes, only service animals may be permitted in our cafes. This may seem like a trivial distinction, but the emphasis should be on the laws that we must follow, not the dogs who can’t come in.
As someone with a significant allergy to dog and cat dander, this is a huge pet peeve (ha). I also have a friend who is terrified of dogs and takes great care to avoid being in close contact with them. It is not unreasonable to expect that a restaurant, cafe, or bar will be free of domestic pets and any other live animals.
The Twilight Exit is the worst place for this that I know of. Last time I was there, there was an ENORMOUS Irish wolfhound and at least one other medium-sized dog that were both wandering free amongst the tables. I loved that place but I stopped going there after that. Clearly the management doesn’t care to be friendly to patrons who don’t want wet dog nose pressed against them at random intervals during their visit, but health codes are not optional.
This story has opened my eyes, I now have a better appreciation for the perspective of non-pet patrons. However, as a dog owner I’ve often noticed inconsistent pet policies. Home Depot and Lowe’s posted prominent, corporate wide, no pet policies only to later relent and allow pets into their stores, ditto for the Broadway QFC. Starbucks, however, has never encouraged pets in my experience, a good example being their location in uber-pet friendly U. Village where dogs are welcomed practically everywhere else. I respect any store’s policy and wouldn’t think to impose my dog where he isn’t welcome.
I believe a pet positive compromise would be the availability of a leash stand where dogs could be securely tethered while their owners transacted business, perhaps with a communal water bowl nearby. I’d rather encounter a pet or two outside my favorite coffee house than the horde of banned smokers puffing away endangering everyone’s public health, including passers-by. Seattle & King County Public Health could do more to enforce the no-smoking within 25 feet rule.
Did it ever occur to you that people in QFC with their dogs may have those dogs as service animals? I personally know one person whose beagle mix is a trained epilepsy-sniffing dog which he must take everywhere so he can be alerted if a seizure is coming. You can’t always tell if a person has a disability which requires a service animal by looking at them, and not all service dogs are labradors or golden retrievers.
It never occurred to me that many people who walk around with toy dogs in bags were actually carrying service animals.
Are you suggesting that there are no health inspections at Norm’s? Or that health inspectors are somehow overlooking the fact that dog’s are always inside?
Also, I bring this up because it is one of my favorite things about Norm’s. It’s pretty much accepted that if you don’t like dogs, then you don’t go to Norm’s.
I wrote comments on the other posting so I’ll keep this one short.
Soooo tired of jerk dog owners.
Just today my boyfriend and I were at the park tossing a frisbee. We were on our way back from the store (nothing melty) so we decided to play in Volunteer park. We put our grocery bags and sweatshirts in a pile in a spot out of the way and started to play. SEVERAL dog owners on retractable leashes let their dog walk up to our things (again, not in the way) and sniff our groceries! Full on nose-in-bag!
Don’t let your dog lick our groceries. Can someone explain why the owners felt like it was okay to do that?
Oh, right. . . “my dog isn’t hurting anyone!” Right.
Jerks.
Thank you Ladro for making your presence known here. I agree that the focus should be on the laws that you ahve to follow in order to keep your doors open and conduct business. So many people think that it is their “right” to bring their dogs with them everywhere they go. I can’t stand people who think that way.
Dogs are wonderful and fun, but there is a place for them and it’s not inside of grocery stores, cafes, restraunts or any place like that.
It makes me irate to see people who don’t control their dogs. Having a dog sniffing through my grocery bags would infuriate me to know end!! That is just rude and inconsiderate for somebody to allow their dog to do this. I think the retractable leashes are a bunch of crap! It’s just another lazy way for people to not pay complete attention to their pets. There should be a law requiring a 6 foot leash and leave it at that.
that sucks! well i suppose instructing the owners that this is unacceptable behavior and that you will reprimand their dogs if they do not bring it under control. I probably would not have left my food there ‘cos it only takes approx. 1 sec. for a dog to eat your food–this has happened to me before…its generally a bad idea to bring your dog to the farmer’s markets too people–i’ve seen several vendors pop a pup on the nose for grabbing a snack when they were otherwise engaged.
I carry mace 24/7 since I was attacked by a leashed rotweiler a few years ago around noon on melrose and pine..i had to sue the owner to pay for my $1000 in medical bills and he wound up giving up the unlicensed dog to a relative out of town as his fines from the city broke him, but i am still not mortally frightened of a stranger dog–hell i love em, but everyone should keep in mind that these are still domesticated animals and no matter how much control you think you have, no matter how much love YOU have for the animal, no matter how great you think your relationship with it is, you are not going to be able to fully dictate its behavior with commands. And if you can’t, i will mace/choke your dog when it comes after me–in complete and legal self-defense. So keep your dog under control my people!
So not only do we comply with health regulations, that by the way are based on data and medically supported disease prevention, but we have to also be held to standards regarding “cultural grotesqueness”? I suppose it does not occur to you that some of us are trying to be considerate of others by putting our animal in a small bag, and BTW people regularly make rude comments about our small dogs when we are minding our own business walking down the street.
(A) Except as specified in (B) and (C) of this section, live animals may not be allowed on the PREMISES
of a FOOD ESTABLISHMENT.
(B) Live animals may be allowed in the following situations if the contamination of FOOD; clean EQUIPMENT,
UTENSILS, and LINENS; and unwrapped SINGLE-SERVICE and SINGLE-USE ARTICLES can not result:
(1) Edible FISH or decorative FISH in aquariums, shellfish or crustacea on ice or under refrigeration,
and shellfish and crustacea in display tank systems;
(2) Patrol dogs accompanying police or security officers in offices and dining, sales, and storage
areas, and sentry dogs running loose in outside fenced areas;
(3) In areas that are not used for FOOD preparation and that are usually open for customers, such as
dining and sales areas, SERVICE ANIMALS that are controlled by the disabled EMPLOYEE or PERSON, if a
health or safety HAZARD will not result from the presence or activities of the SERVICE ANIMAL;
(4) Pets in the common dining areas of institutional care facilities such as nursing homes, assisted
living facilities, group homes, or residential care facilities at times other than during meals if:
(a) Effective partitioning and self-closing doors separate the common dining areas from FOOD
storage or FOOD preparation areas,
(b) Condiments, EQUIPMENT, and UTENSILS are stored in enclosed cabinets or removed from the
common dining areas when pets are present, and
(c) Dining areas including tables, countertops, and similar surfaces are effectively cleaned before
the next meal service; and
(5) In areas that are not used for FOOD preparation, storage, sales, display, or dining, in which there
are caged animals or animals that are similarly confined, such as in a variety store that sells pets or a
tourist park that displays animals.
(C) Live or dead FISH bait may be stored if contamination of FOOD; clean EQUIPMENT, UTENSILS, and LINENS;
and unwrapped SINGLE-SERVICE and SINGLE-USE ARTICLES can not result.
http://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/documents/service_animals
Overrides, for those deserving of the exemption.
Speciesism!
“Or that health inspectors are somehow overlooking the fact that dog’s are always inside?”
Yes, that’s exactly what’s happening.
“Did it ever occur to you that people in QFC with their dogs may have those dogs as service animals?”
Yes, and they aren’t service animals, no matter what the rank spanger claims.
“I personally know one person whose beagle mix is a trained epilepsy-sniffing dog which he must take everywhere so he can be alerted if a seizure is coming.”
Super for him, but these aren’t service animals.
Love CHS, and glad if I was able to give your site a few hits, although I’m pretty sure my first contribution will also be my last – I’m not sufficiently flame retardant for controversial subject matter like this.
Cheers,
Sean
Frankly I’m with seandr. If it was up to me the sign would tell patrons to leave their children tied at the curb. I can’t think of a time a dog ruined a shopping, dining, or drinking experience of mine. But the odds are HIGH that if someone comes in with their children, they will be loud, messy, and running amuck, with no acknowledgement from the parent and certainly no effort to clean up after their spawn or discipline them so they learn how to behave in public. But then again……maybe I just don’t like children and think they should be left at home until they are old enough to act right in public.
The difference is one is a human being and one is a dog. Unfortunately, some of those spawn may grow up to be just like you and that is unfortunate for the rest of us.
Apparently you should not be out in public because you sound like you have yet to learn how to act.
This is from the ADA’s website – http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm:
A service animal is one that has been “individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability.” So an animal that is just there to comfort someone is most likely not a service dog. A beagle that sniffs for seizures probably has received training and is therefore most likely a service dog.
That link also provides the following: Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.
i completely agree with you – i love chs, i hate the commenters and wonder if they are really my neighbors…
i also agree with devodad – no dog has ruined my experience but many a child has.
i think the worst dog owner problems i’ve seen is dogs offleash walking about town and those who don’t pick-up their dog’s mess. other than that, live and let live.
Stop pretending that carrying your shopping dog around in a bag is anything more than a fashion statement. Also, I’m tired of seeing people drive with their little dogs on their or in their laps, as if nothing could possibly happen to startle the dog and cause you to lose control of your vehicle.
Bringing up parents that don’t keep their children in line to defend bad pet ownership is nothing but a Strawman logical fallacy.
Just because that is an annoying issue, doesn’t mean that the pet issue isn’t a valid complaint.
Some pets or service animals help with depression or social phobias. A ferret, a snake, a rat, a goldfish in a bowl: all (potentially) service animals.
Hmm, just like the gun-packers made a show at Starbucks recently, I think that somebody should organize a pet, err, service animal flashmob. Absurd theater, a challenge to policy or law, or just a chance for dozens of animals to sniff each other’s asses? Yay.
With or without health inspectors you should already be concerned about the cleanliness of an eating establishment that allows pets.
Most restaurants don’t allow pets.
wow….I’m with the others, I have a hard time believing such mean spirited comments come from my neighbors on Capitol Hill. The Capitol Hill I know has a kinder outlook towards one another and better things to do than jump on the slightest chance to be cruel. This is the last time I will post or read comments.
Like many other City “services” (illegal dumping, graffiti, abandoned vehicles), the Health Dept. responds mainly by citizen complaint, so if you see a violation be a good citizen and report it! You just can’t rely on City agencies discovering a problem.
Yes, the Health Dept. does regular inspections of restaurants, but there are thousands of these in Seattle, so the inspections are few and far between. It would be easy for them to miss a significant problem business.
“Some pets or service animals help with depression or social phobias. A ferret, a snake, a rat, a goldfish in a bowl: all (potentially) service animals.”
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v7n2/7n2hende.htm
“Social animals, those used to address animal-assisted therapy goals, are trained and used in a wide variety of settings including hospitals, nursing facilities, schools, and other institutions. While several national organizations provide structured training and certification programs for these animals, most are not recognized as “service animals” under Federal law. Therefore, this category of assistance animals will not be referenced in this review of service animal policy.”
Therapy dogs are not service animals, no matter how much you stamp your feet.
Um, both of those dogs are regulars, are hypoallergenic, and dogs who do not push for affection.