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posted
01/29/09 01:02 PM
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updated
01/29/09 01:02 PM
No airport express for light rail
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194
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| According to the current Metro 194 timetable, it takes the bus 32 minutes to get between the convention center tunnel stop and Sea-Tac. Yes, it will be great to have another option for getting to the airport -- particularly one that runs earlier, later, and more frequently -- but isn't it disappointing that it won't be faster? | |
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Comment by
final answer
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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Jeff, below, is right. Metro proposes cutting the 194 once light rail is operational http://transit.metrokc.gov/up/sc/plans/2009/012009-sesea-dts They'll add a new route for non-light rail hours. |
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Comment by
jseattle
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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Not only does the 194 get stuck in rush hour traffic on I-5 along with everybody else, but since nearly all the passengers are carrying luggage, it can take a very long time to get everyone on at each station. These buses are often extremely crowded because of the narrow isles and little room for luggage. It gets worse if there's a wheelchair on board, because that front area is often used just for luggage. Since link doesn't run in traffic, and has very few grade crossings, it will offer a very reliable ride to the airport, even if it takes a few minutes longer. Trains will have more doors, wider isles, and more standing room than buses. When light rail opens to the airport, the 194 will go away. It won't be missed. |
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Comment by
Eric
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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| Eric is dead on. Link might not be faster on paper, but in practice it will kick the 194's butt. Also, it frees up money for Metro to use those bus service hours on other overcrowded routes. | |
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Comment by
Ben Schiendelman
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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Yes, it's disappointing that the light rail to the airport in Seattle is not expected to be significantly faster than the existing limited-stop 194 bus. Also it's disappointing that the Sea-Tac Airport light rail station will be as far or even further away from many airline check-in counters as the present 194 bus. Also disappointing is that the 194 bus in its lifespan has never had luggage racks like the WMATA express bus in the northern DC suburbs in Maryland between the BWI Airport and the Greenbelt Metrorail Station, that with a $3.10 fare and frequent service, kicks the butt of the Amtrak and MARC trains between Union Station and BWI Airport. Unlike the train, the bus drops you at the curb close to the Baltimore airport check in counters. I do have hope that the new light rail service to the Airport in Seattle will slide through the 18 signalized grade-crossing intersections in the Rainier Valley on a computer-controlled wave of green lights. Especially when I'm aboard one of the 272 trains per day, I hope that the train won't hit anyone at those intersections, which the environmental impact statement (EIS) forecasts will happen once every 12 days. Remarkably, Sound Transit expects that not a single one of any future collisions will be the agency's fault. Fortunately, the agency is engaged in a massive safety education campaign at this time, targeted at all those who drive, bike, or walk near the tracks. I hope the campaign is effective! The Sound Transit light rail safety campaign is described at http://www.soundtransit.org/x2622.xml . North of downtown, and south of the Rainier Valley, the tracks will be entirely grade-separated, so collisions with vehicles and bikes will be impossible, an outcome of more context-sensitive design for an urban environment that came out at a different place than the result in Southeast Seattle. All this by way of explaining that I'm disappointed that Sound Transit successfully beat back the neighborhood activists in the late 1990s who tried to force the light rail track design to be grade separated in S.E. Seattle. So now we wait and see what happens as light rail operations ramp up in Seattle! The system has to run for many hours in testing with a full schedule of trains but no passengers, before the ribbon cutting. |
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Comment by
jniles
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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jniles, you anti-ST folks need to get over it. The battle's over. Time to move on. Re: grade separation Rainier Valley, MLK is wide and flat and so at-grade makes sense. We're tunneling to the north because of hills and water. |
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Comment by
wave
January 29, 2009
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Re: 194
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I don't think jniles is being "anti-ST" at all. Those are completely valid concerns. Frankly, I'm both excited and skeptical of the new Link. Excited because it will be nice to be out of traffic and have an express option that doesn't operate on liquor store hours. Skeptical because I think expectations are way too high for light rail ("idiots" -- and their lugguge -- ride trains too!) and obviously am in the minority of people who doesn't think the 194 is *that* bad. |
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Comment by
final answer
January 29, 2009
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Nope
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| The 194 route will be going away once the light rail opens. | |
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Comment by
John
January 29, 2009
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Hey, if you wanted an express...
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You could have voted for the heavy rail line we shot down in 1995, before Sound Move passed in 1996. We did NOT give Sound Transit enough money to build an express. To do so, you'd have to build more tracks than just two, bypasses at the non-express stations at the very least, dramatically increasing real estate and construction costs. I understand you've just realized this, but it's not exactly new news - it's the kind of thing that's been asked at dozens of public meetings for the last decade. In the future, we can build a bypass of the rainier valley (if we choose to, you know, vote to give Sound Transit money to do so) by going down Marginal Way, basically just continuing straight south from SoDo to the Duwamish. If you want that, fight for it. Also, as a regular 194 user who lives on the Hill, I scoff at the 32 minute number. Light rail doesn't run in traffic. The 194 does. Oh, and all the people paying as they get on at the airport can add five minutes right there (not to mention idiots arguing with the driver). Also, the train runs a lot more often than the 194. In practice, even though the actual travel time is about the same as the 194 'schedule', the time you take getting from one end to the other will be a lot lower. |
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Comment by
Ben Schiendelman
January 29, 2009
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RE: Hey, if you wanted an express...
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Ben, the March 1995 Seattle transit vote that failed was for light rail, just like the winning vote in 1996. It was a longer light rail system on the ballot in 1995 than the one that is funded now. The Seattle area heavy rail system votes that failed were back in 1968 and 1970. The tight 90 degree bend in the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel constrains the system we voted for to light rail. |
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Comment by
jniles
January 29, 2009
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RE: Hey, if you wanted an express...
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| John, you're right! But it would likely not have run through Rainier Valley. | |
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Comment by
Ben Schiendelman
January 29, 2009
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20 seconds sounds about right
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Load/Unload times for the subway's I've lived with probably were always around 20 seconds. You've got multiple doors opening and closing. People getting on stay to the side, people getting off go first. Unless Seattleites can screw this up (like their driving), I think 20 seconds will be a good guess. Boston took decades to get express trains going, same thing for NYC. Don't expect the system to be comparable on day one (heck, even after 5 years). Just as everybody has said, unlike the bus 'projected' 32 minutes, the light rail time should be +-5%. 36 minutes to go ~15 miles isn't that bad. Google says it's a 35 minute trip in traffic. However, with the light rail you don't have to worry about parking for 10 bucks/day. |
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Comment by
BenG
January 29, 2009
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194
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| If I need to, I can post about 30 different photos of the 194 slogging in traffic just trying to get onto 518 and I-5. I'll take Link if I need to get to the Airport. | |
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Comment by
Brian Bundridge
January 29, 2009
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RE: 194
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| Seriously, it'll be nice to be on a form of mass transit where 50 people on a bus don't have to helplessly wait for one person in a car to let them get into traffic. | |
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Comment by
Guy
January 29, 2009
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Who Cares
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| I'd be happy for it to take an hour if it isn't AWFUL like the 194 or 174. | |
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Comment by
Ryan in the sky
January 29, 2009
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love for the 194
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| I think it's perfectly acceptable that the 194 is being replaced but it has always served me well. It's cheap and actually pretty fast in my experience. | |
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Comment by
jonglix
January 29, 2009
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goodbye 194
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I hated the 194. I was able to use it twice out of the 6 times I tried it - it stopped too early on weekends, felt cramped with all the luggage, and was really hard to get to, making the trip to the airport closer to an hour and 10 minutes by transit. Link will be a 3 minute walk from my house and an 18 minute trip to the airport. Huge improvement. You can have it to: live in Columbia City. |
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Comment by
jcdk
January 30, 2009
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The 194 is quicker.
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It's pathetic for people to exaggerate how bad the 194 is just because they are rail fans. The fact is the 194 is quicker than the train will be, and the times the bus does get stuck in traffic is the exception, not the rule. The 194 also is not routed through the highest crime area in Washington state. Tell your parents that when they are coming to downtown to visit you on Link from the airport at 11 PM. There is even an entire website that was created to document the violent crime that occurs on or near the MAX line. It's okay to be rail fans, and to feel more sophisticated or european because Seattle will soon have light rail, and buses feel so ... unsophisticated ... but don't lie or exaggerate about the 194 just because you feel it's competition for your train. You're right, they probably will take away the 194 route, but not because it duplicates service, they're going to do it to insure Link's success. They want to force people to ride it, to bump up ridership numbers, so they can claim "success." |
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Comment by
Gordon
January 30, 2009
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Express service just for you?
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| Sorry, but everyone is paying for light rail. Why should you get express service, bypassing those who live near all the other stops? Is there something special about you Capitol Hill folks? | |
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Comment by
rjh
January 30, 2009
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lol
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"It's pathetic for people to exaggerate how bad the 194 is" lol have you ridden the 194? I have seen it take 8 mins to pick up people at the airport. Off board payment alone will make a huge difference. Crime is any easy one to solve, just have cops ride the rails, it's a matter of will / money. |
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Comment by
justin
January 30, 2009
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Why does Sound Transit's light rail have so many knee-jerk nay-sayers?
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| There seem to be a large group of people around Seattle that just want to trash Link whenever they can. Then there are milder skeptics. Many nit-pick away at ST with any provocation. I find this all really narrow-minded. So many other metro areas, including many smaller than Seattle-Tacoma, already have light rail: Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, Minneapolis, Dallas, not to mention really established systems in Sacramento, Portland, San Diego, even Los Angeles. All these systems really help move people around. Seattle's new system is a first-rate one, and will provide a fine alternative to buses and cars. It will make it easier to get to the airport and avoid parking and waiting. It will be much easier to get to football and baseball games, to downtown, and eventually to UW and to Bellevue and Redmond. We'll have a strong system, often above or below grade, running very frequently. Once it's in, people will start using it and we'll find it's an important part of our transportation infrastructure. | |
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Comment by
Tom R
January 30, 2009
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Link won't just be an airport train
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| I have heard many criticism of link by way that it won't get to the airport as fast as the 194 (at least on paper, see above). Link wasn't planned to just be a downtown to the airport transit service like the 194 is. Link is part of a larger transit system that is meant to do many things like get people to and from work, school, sports games etc. We could have just skipped the rainier segment and it would be a hell of a lot faster, but only a few thousand people would ride it. plus it would screw over the tens of thousands of Seattle residents who live and work in the rainier valley (also on of the most under served neighborhoods for transit compared to its size). | |
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Comment by
chris m
January 30, 2009
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