But I didn’t have to write my own. CHS commenter Cometregular wrote it for me:
I’ll Do Your Dirty Work
Ok Justin, since you’re not either responsible or man enough to do what’s right yourself, let me do it for you.Dear Mr. Meyer,
As you may very well know by now, another person bearing your name was involved in an incident at a Capitol Hill eatery, where this person made insulting remarks to his server via his credit card receipt, as well as stiffing her on a tip. The server provided this story to us, which my site posted. A photograph obtained from another on-line source bearing your image was applied to the Andrew Meyer who was involved in the incident and posted on my blog.After a short time, some of the blogs and eventually, the server herself, revealed that the Andrew in the photo was not the Andrew involved in the incident.
As the person co-ordinating this site and responsible for posting the story and photo, I want to express my deepest and sincere apologies to you for this error. I also wish to apologize for the many derisive and attacking comments you were made to endure on this blog-site as a result of my posting this. I also apologize to the fans of this blog-site for the controversy that was stirred up by this erroneous posting.
CHS promises to ensure that in the future, further such stories will be fully investigated and be accurate before they get posted. Again Andrew, my deepest apologies.
Signed,
JustinComment by cometregular
Brutal.
I spoke to Cometregular by phone (long story) and it turns out he really is a Pike/Pine old-timer (some of you might have hung out at a local watering hole he used to manage) and knows the Bimbos/Cha Cha bartender Victoria Liss who found herself at the center of the social media storm this week.
There is nothing more painful to me than trying to explain “the point” of our posts. I did my best with Comet but also did not want to explain the situation away. If you’re pissed at us, you’re pissed. But our point was that public shaming — oops, URL changed — and “banning” somebody from Capitol Hill over the situation was ridiculous. As ridiculous as banning — and then un-banning — a human being from a web site:
Banned from CHS — UPDATE: Un-banned
UPDATE x2: After consulting CHS comments, we have decided that a 12-hour ban is sufficient. Andrew, you are welcome to again read the site. Enjoy capitolhillseattle.comUPDATE: Due to the back and forth over whether the Andrew pictured was actually the Andrew involved, we are removing the photo. Andrew, however, remains banned. Naughty Andrew.
We’re sorry, Andrew, but we’re going to have to ask you to leave. The community demands it. Try again when this all blows over, maybe.
Also, Bimbos is a CHS advertiser.
Use of the Andrew Meyer picture linked to by Liss angered Comet and plenty of others. He saw a situation getting out of hand, quickly, for a friend. We removed the picture from the post immediately as the story changed. But the story had already spread.
In the meantime, the issues over “the wrong Andrew Meyer” have overshadowed the original incident and other questions raised by the situation. Here’s how CHS reader Andrew — another Andrew — put it:
I’ve lived on the hill for for 3 years now and particularly over the past ~6 months there’s been really drastic changes to the type of people that visit the hill. it used to be the occasional weekend would have the douchebag bridge and tunnel types, leaving the rest of the week to hill regulars. lately though it doesn’t seem that there is a single night that I can go out and just enjoy the hill and old friends. in addition to the crowds, I’ve been involved in a number of fights and altercations; I’ve feel like as a result of this influx of bar tourism there’s also been a much higher number of crimes being committed.
any thoughts on this? I think it would really be interesting to see if this trend is tangible, and perhaps track down what the driving forces are for why these people invade the hill. almost every street argument I’ve been a part of has been with some drunk guy in a button down looking to pick a fight with some hipster kid. why come to the hill at all if that’s your attitude?
It’s a possible undercurrent. This bar brawl we reported earlier this week and fleshed out by the Stranger today provides an adequate anecdote. But is it new? Or just the way things have always been?
Back to Andrew Meyer, we’ve contacted Bimbos but they’ve declined comment at this time. Nobody has produced the Andrew supposedly involved in this situation. And he or anybody representing him hasn’t contacted CHS. We’re told Andrew Meyer exists but, at this point, we’ll let him tell the next part of the story.
Yes, yes I know everybody will disagree with my view. I’m good with that. People need to stop chastising you over this, dude.
When this whole thing hit the fan last week you were quick to take steps to make it as “right” as possible. The person who’s most in the wrong is that server. Sorry, but the minute she published not only a photo of a receipt, but went hunting for a Facebook persona, she became 100% responsible for what happened.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. The guy who insulted her on the receipt was an unwashed douchebag, but the steps taken after that border on malicious harassment.
I think you’ve more than done your penance for your participation in this.
As a casual observer I found this story quite entertaining. No need for CHS to apologize in my opinion, just the waitress. I hope to see a follow up story in a couple weeks.
At the risk of sounding patronizing, I hope that in future you will learn to keep your head above these childish and vindictive spats. The server should have spoken directly to the customer about his behaviour. As soon as she made it public she lost all my sympathy. This is typical Seattle passive aggressive nonsense which should not be given any space on your excellent blog.
I’m really disappointed with CHS for putting these andrew meyer posts on the site.
I respect this blog as a news source for my neighborhood. These are not the type of articles I expect from CHS.
Breaking news: No tip!!
Regarding your point that banning and un-banning Andrew from CHS was an attempt at irony – because no one can really be banned from a blog that allows anonymous commenting – I don’t think anyone got that. That’s a joke that only bloggers will understand. And when you posted his picture linked to a Facebook profile, that took the joke out of funny territory into serious territory.
Anyway, glad this is over, it was silly from the beginning… but if there’s anything redeeming from it, it’s that it makes us all more aware we should be careful of the privacy controls on our social media profiles.
People will always say things used to be better.
As far as the poster complaining about the douchey bridge and tunnel crowd… I’ve lived on Capitol Hill for 16 years. Substitute “straight person” for “drunk guy in a button down shirt” and “gay” for “hipster” and that was the situation 10 years ago. We’d go to presumably gay bars and have guys upset that a dude hit on them. Now, we go to even less presumably gay bars and there’s a bachelorette party or straight people bringing their parents!!! Things change, alas.
The waitress needs to be fired.
“…it doesn’t seem that there is a single night that I can go out and just enjoy the hill and old friends. in addition to the crowds, I’ve been involved in a number of fights and altercations…”
what are you talking about? i go out all the time and while, yes, it can be crowded depending on where i go, that doesn’t stop me from enjoying myself. and what kind of personality do you have that you get into so many fights and altercations?
yeah, there are a bunch of douchebags that you run into on the hill (both living on and visiting the hill i might add). but i ignore all of them and have never once had an issue. if you keep having a problem with fights every time you go out, maybe the common denominator is you.
Agreed. It takes two to tango, and if this Andrew character really is finding himself in, “a number of fights and altercations,” then Andrew obviously needs to chill the fuck out.
What makes people think the d-bags are coming from other cities/neighborhoods? Let me guess, you think all of your friends are cool.
Have you ever thought other people might think you are the d-bag? There are plenty of d-bags living on Capitol Hill.
Respectfully disagree with your summation: “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”
Flip apologies are obviously insincere. Two wrongs DON’T make a right. Justin and Jezabel and Savage and the others took spiteful actions with sanctimonious glee, seeming designed to entertain the kind of people such as the Justin of “Great story”, below.
If I were Andrew, I would hope to see apologies that were at least as sincere as their original sanctimonious glee
As for: “I think you’ve more than done your penance for your participation in this.” Agreed in the sense that in the heartfelt apology department, Justin seems capable of about this.
Justin: I invite you to prove me wrong. Andrew deserves it.
This whole thing Andrew Meyer thing reminds me of junior high…since when did something like this become newsworthy?
And, another junior high-esque perception: somehow “the hill” has become this clique that is too cool for the rest of the Seattle crowd? I thought that being different was the something that Capitol Hill prided itself on…so when other “types” of crowds make their way there, that diversity isn’t appreciated? I find it hard to believe that every altercation is the fault of someone from outside of the hill. Seattle Freeze at its finest.
The attitude expressed in the original post reads like anti-immigrant propaganda.
Can you say the server was stiffed when she didn’t get a tip?
The whole point of a tip is it is voluntary. If he didn’t want to tip her he didn’t have to. He does have to pay the bill.
I think maybe once at the most twice I have not tipped and it was because of crap service. Maybe she didn’t do a good job.
Obviously the weight comment was way out of line no matter the service, but there is no legal obligation for him to tip.
Dan Savage was sad on this issue, way over reacted and petty way.
Why don’t you people guess at the Andrew Meyer who lives less than half a mile, and in the same zip code, as Bimbo’s?
How difficult is it to go to this website:
http://www.soundpolitics.com/voterlookup.html
use voter registration records, and dedude that THE Andrew Meyer is most likely the one who lives a half-mile from Bimbo’s???
With it you even get all the names of his fellow apartment building dwellers, to whom everyone can send anonymous info letting them know about the lowlife in their building.
Plug his name into that website, then go to the guy in the 98122 zip code, and click ON his address, and all of the other tennants show up too!
Seriously, that written-for-you apology is the least you could have done. But you didn’t do even that, someone else wrote it for you. The amount of it’s-not-my-fault-ing going on between CHS and SLOG and Jezebel is astounding.
This, for sure. I can understand that it’s a neighborhood news story (that get some national exposure) so I get wanting to capitalize on that; but there should’ve been two posts: original post about the story, and a correction once the person identified was found out to not be that person. We don’t need 6 posts about some dbag not leaving a tip.
I’d be pretty pissed if one of my employees went out of their way to slander some guy and it turned out to be the wrong guy. That reflects very poorly on the establishment…but not too many bars/eateries on the hill seem to be concerned with that.
Because they’re suppose to appreciate our diversity…and keep their diversity to Fremont and Wallingford.
Sarcastic comment is sarcastic.
That should read “Deduce” (LOL)
And, for the record, the (actual) Andrew Meyer was solely in the wrong. For that waitress has as much right to publish that receipt as did the guy whose entire website used to be his own Wal Mart receipts. They had the store manager’s name on them and everything.
Andrew Meyer (the original) is a total moron. While not leaving her a “tip” (indeed he wasn’t obliged to do so), he was stupid enough to leave her his identity, and that will come down upon him very hard, many times over, and deservedly so.
Furthermore, if Bimbo’s were to take any action against the waitress/bartender, she could turn right around and sue THEM for allowing harrassment in the workplace. (and, lets not forget, she has visual proof of same)
This certainly isn’t/wasn’t about the mere lacking tip. Everyone knows it is all about the message affixed to the receipt, and the waitress/bartender has every right to do with that PERSONAL MESSAGE as she pleases.
(the correct) Andrew Meyer should be tied up and brought to Westlake Park for a good, old-fashioned pummeling so that those (other) morons might have something to do for a few minutes of their empty days.
It is hilarious how people who can not and will not accept responsibility for problems THEY caused themselves (by over-borrowing, and over-spending), then go on and blame “banks” and “Wall Street” for their problems.
My “bank” gave me a $20,000 credit limit. In what stupid train of thought should I blame the bank if I go out and spend the whole $20,000??? Same is true of the purchase of a $700,000 home by people who can only ‘afford’ to buy a $320,000 home.
Unbelievable!
The waitress is no better than Andrew Meyer. If the waitress were really concerned about harassment she should have filed a complaint with her manager. The waitress has no right to publish a receipt without her employers permission since she is getting paid to do a job.
You are the pot calling the kettle black for suggesting this guy is a moron when you think violence is the solution.
Andrew certainly did something stupid but the waitress had a choice in how she chose to respond.
“Why don’t you people guess at the Andrew Meyer who lives less than half a mile, and in the same zip code, as Bimbo’s?”
because most people require PROOF not guesses before they publicly castrate someone.
“… and dedude that THE Andrew Meyer is most likely the one who lives a half-mile from Bimbo’s???”
really? there’s no chance that “THE Andrew Meyer” was from out of town? from all the andrew meyers listed on the sound politics site, in the state of washington, that name seems kinda common. not to mention, who’s to say that “THE Andrew Meyer” is registered to vote? stop deducing, you don’t have the mind for it.
” With it you even get all the names of his fellow apartment building dwellers, to whom everyone can send anonymous info letting them know about the lowlife in their building.”
GREAT! go from cyber bullying potentially innocent people to actually bullying them. wow! just go away already.
I heard this incident was discussed on the Today show this morning. For real it was. Good work kids Capitol Hill has gone national! Hahaha.
No kidding. There’s zero chance I’m every going to that place again. I don’t stiff people on tips but now I’m petrified that if I don’t leave 25% each and every time, even if my food gets spit on and I get called a 4-letter word, my life is going to be made a living hell. There are plenty of other places to eat. I don’t need the drama.
N/T
This whole series of reporting definitely made me hesitant to visit CHS. I’m disappointed that something gleaned from a person’s Facebook page was even posted about on CHS–notwithstanding the facts that (1) no verification was done by CHS before posting; and (2) even without verification, the Facebook post strongly implied that it was only part of the story, which should caution against re-posting.
I’m definitely not going to the Cha Cha. My standard tip is 20%, if the service is decent. I tip more if the service is actually attentive, polite, and more than expected. I tip a little less (typically 15-18%) if the service is inattentive, curt, or dismissive. If the service is intentionally rude, condescending, or bigoted, I think it is appropriate to refuse to tip. Thankfully, for someone who dines out frequently, those occasions are rare (I think the last time was about 9 years ago, which involved treatment so condescending, rude, and unsanitary, that it would offend all reasonable people). None of that, however, matters.
What appears to have happened here is that a diner was intentionally rude and disrespectful to a server. There is no excuse for what the diner allegedly wrote. That being said, hastily posting the individual’s name and signature along with the picture and personal information of a totally different person–who happened to have the same name–was reckless, and totally unjustified. It begs the question of how attentive the server actually was, if they couldn’t even recognize the customer’s picture, but then we already know that we only have the rightfully disgruntled server’s perspective on this story.
The server was wronged by the alleged customer (assuming that the customer was the person who wrote the note–not some other person, like a co-worker who was playing a joke on the server, or another patron who wrote the comment). The mis-identified person was wronged by the server, CHS, Dan Savage at the Slog, and by all those who rushed to judgment (and, ironically, showed their own prejudices in doing so). The alleged customer was also potentially wronged, as voice was not given to his point of view. Did the server say something prejudiced to him? Did he actually write the comment? Was there more to the story? Who knows.
If there is more to the story, I’d imagine it would come out in a well-founded lawsuit by the alleged customer or the mis-identified person, that could be a big pain for the server, the Cha Cha, and potentially CHS. In the meantime, I’ll be taking what I read at CHS with a greater dose of skepticism, and I’ll definitely not be going to the Cha Cha, where I know that it’s acceptable for employees to take my personal data and splash it around the Internet.
What series of reporting are you talking about src? I’m fine with criticism that says it was a stupid post but to try to portray it as a journalistic effort is peculiar. Are you confusing our post with the other posts that went into great depth on the situation? My post was four lines about banning Andrew Meyer from visiting CHS and a picture of a guy that the bartender decided was the wrong guy. You’ve been on the site a long time so I’m particularly interested in your reaction.
These comments about “reporting” are pretty interesting and form around the theme that this was poor journalism. I’ll be the first to admit — this was not journalism. I was not reporting. I don’t want to dismiss the post — but at least put it in a realistic framework. If you think it was a stupid post, fine.
Um, try again. The waitress works for a business. It’s not her right to do anything with the receipts but turn them over to her employer. If she has a problem with that, she can take a walk. FURTHERMORE, she has admitted that she subjected THE WRONG Andrew Meyer to the bile of an Internet mob, and EVEN FURTHERMORE, a “Drew” has posted an account of the incident on Yelp, and let’s just say it does not put Victoria Liss in a good light. Which honestly doesn’t surprise me, given the treatment I’ve received at Bimbo’s as a paying customer, who was nothing but polite to the staff. Unfortunately they were either too coked-Up or too self-absorbed (possibly both) to notice that THEY WORK IN A F***ING RESTAURANT, AND THEY ARE BEING PAID TO SERVE FOOD. Preferably without a shitty attitude. There are two sides to every story, and just because you work in a restaurant doesn’t mean 1) you’re always right no matter what or 2) you have the right to subject your customers to an Internet mob.
Great points, src. I agree 100% with everything you said.
(BTW, is CHS still a “content partner” of the Seattle Times?)
Ah, Ren, I see you are intimately familiar with our business. Makes sense. And, yes we are. While I don’t always agree with their editorial viewpoint, they’re a remaining force of true journalism in the area and it’s an honor to have been selected to be part of their effort to showcase the best Seattle sites.
I’ve been working in bars on Capitol Hill since 1999. Without exception, every single establishment where I have worked would have fired any employee who publicly complained about a tip or lack thereof. Sometimes people are jerks. Sometimes people leave nasty notes on their receipt. It happens. If I had handled a situation in the same bitter matter which this server did then I’d be unemployed. She handled herself very unprofessionally and should learn an expensive lesson.
I think you misunderstand – my concern is that an august publication like the Seattle Times is having its reputation tarnished by being associated with the Anytown, USA internet version of the News of the World.
Justin, I have been on the site awhile. I read it every day, and I find CHS to be a great way of learning about the news in the neighborhood I live in. The pause that the “series of reporting” I mentioned intended to convey a couple of concepts, albeit not very clearly.
First, I do view posts on CHS as reporting on the goings-on in and around the Hill. Most of the posts are “reporting,” albeit not always investigative journalism, of Hill-related news. The posts that appear on CHS are even referred to in the CHS iPhone App as “CHS News.”
Second, by series, I meant the original post that appeared on CHS, the subsequent updates to that post, and the subsequent user comments (some of which you posted, and others of which were vigilante-like in nature). If the post wasn’t intended to be news, I wasn’t clear whether the post was meant to be solely sarcastic or ironic, or whether you actually were seeking to further a public shaming of someone based on an incomplete set of facts. It did not come across as sarcastic or ironic, and if the latter was your purpose, that’s unfortunate.
It seems to me that it would have been prudent to remove the post all together once it was revealed that the sole-reporter’s facts were wrong (i.e., the server could not even identify the proper person she accused), and to issue an apology for distributing the post in the first place. I know that I first read about the incident here, at CHS; to the extent that CHS was the first to relay the story outside the context of the server’s Facebook posts, it also seems appropriate to apologize–sincerely–for that, since that crossover reporting may have contributed to additional reporting of the mis-identified person on other sites.
@neverwentbackthere
i don’t doubt that there’s more to the story than what’s been posted online; but i read that review by “drew” on yelp. it was posted this wednesday by someone who set-up their account this month and has just one review – the one for bimbos.
knowing the level of discourse this incident has brought to light it wouldn’t surprise me if someone didn’t create an account just to make up that “review”. just like we should take victoria liss’s story with a grain of salt, i suggest we all add a heavy dose of skepticism to that review.
Has anyone asked if the server’s attitude played a part on all these?
I would think that if a customer is not satisfied with a server’s service,
he/she wouldn’t leave a tip. To leave an absurd comment on the receipt proves that the customer is a douche bag, but I’d like to know what prompted this?
What happened after the bar scene now makes the server a felon. Why go through the financial information of a paying customer? Why take a photo of a customer’s signature and publish it online? The restaurant should fire this server.
Also, the wrong Andrew should sue that server!
Very good point!!
I don’t think it’s possible to accurately identify what area a person comes from by their dress, the way they act, etc…There are non-hipster looking people who live on Capitol Hill as well as Bellevue.
I agree that an apology was in order. Someone who did nothing to invite the trouble was subjected to internet harassment because unverified information was posted on the internet. The internet is a bit like the Wild West, it is not known for restraint or moderation from its users. I doubt any malice was intended, but harm was caused. So yes, an apology was needed.
I do appreciate that you posted this. I rely on CHS to know what is going on in my neighborhood. My partner and I have lived in Seattle a bit over a year (the entire time in Cap Hill), and it takes time to develop the social networks which get information to you. If slights and insults inspire vengeance-infused internet witchhunts, well, I want to know that. While the comment on the recipe was clearly out of line, a question remains in my head “What else?” would inspire what was quite clearly a graceless, inappropriate response. I think it is fair to say that Liss was not trying to be the better person in this case. What other types of slights would inspire that reaction? I do not mean to single Liss out – she had the help of her friends. Given the prevalence of misinterpretation and misunderstanding in this world, yeah, I’d like to know when these things happen.
So perhaps posting about the incidence without the picture would have been better. I do appreciate that you included it in your blog though. I am not going to Bimbo’s, that’s for sure.
Exactly this. I mean, I knew it made no sense to “ban” someone from a website, I just assumed it was an excuse to spread the story around and add more people to the angry cyber-bully mob.
There was no apology – just a summation that the one he should have posted was “brutal”.
I’m sorry I posted the picture. But I’m not sorry we posted about the situation.
If anyone’s curious, here’s the review:
http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=doVktVz8jzsX_ny6TPY2
I think 50% of the review is probably accurate – mostly how it all started. I’ve been in this establishment before and agree that when it’s busy, the place is a shitstorm. For that reason, I would never even bother going in if it’s crowded or if there’s a line. So many great places on the hill, no need to wait for anything. Particularly mediocre food and subpar service.
I absolutely agree. She has NO LEGAL RIGHT to post a copy of a customer’s receipt. An argument might be made that she is in violation of some law because she INTENTIONALLY took the man’s personal financial information. The same kind of info people get thrown in jail for hacking.
This chick needs to be looking for a job.
I agree with this. I come to CHS for cool local news, updates on places opening and closing, and to find out what those sirens were all about the night before. What I do NOT come here for is 5+ updates over one overly-self-righteous waitress getting stiffed $5 and then crying about it. I expect a bit more from CHS than to be some chick’s avenue for calling a witch hunt over $5 and a “fat” remark. Also, as soon as threats for violence were posted on the FB page and here the comments should have been locked at CHS should have looked into whether or not posting more inane bullshit related to this was a good idea in the first place.
I’ll just follow you around the site correcting your false statements, LukeT. We’ve posted three times on this incident. It’s clearly newsworthy. And the Facebook thread on our page was nothing like you portray:
https://www.facebook.com/capitolhillseattleblog/posts/282501
If any neighborhood restaurant or bar owners have been following this just remember the name Victoria Liss. You may find her resume on your desk soon. Do not hire this woman.
Glad to know that Justin has covered the real news of this community so thoroughly that there’s time, space, brain power left over for the dribble of a whiny waitress who didn’t get the VOLUNTARY tip she thought she was entitled to. Seriously? What a joke you’ve all made of yourselves.
The was an act perpetrated by ONE human being – Andrew (F?) Meyer.
While nobody with any sense is condoning any “violence” against him, society as a whole will clean his clock very soon.
The only “financial information” given out by the server was the $26 or $28 the guy was billed for his food (and the $0 tip, if you want to get technical).
She was not “complaining about her tip”.
She in fact had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to copy and publish that receipt online. (the mere fact that it has been republished by companies everywhere without their lawyers saying a thing, shows you that much)
Finally, this is NOT about whether or not Victoria is “better” than Andrew Meyer.
For there are many, many people in this world far “better” than you (whoever you are) tend to be, who have done absolutely stupid and inexcusable things and who have been punished either appropriately or beyond what is appropriate for what amounted to their own stupidity.
That Andrew Meyer was fool enough to put his own stupidity in print is reason enough for society to steamroll him in whatever way they deem suitable.
(if your paperboy hurls your paper into a bush in the morning while muttering what an asshole you are, that’s one thing. If the newspaper in that same bush has on its front page written and published proof that you are indeed an asshole, then it’s the idea that you brought it into the public eye, for all to see, and not the mere fact that your paperboy may be a bigger asshole than are you, which dictates public response in the matter) Andrew Meyer will soon understand this very clearly.
Can you provide a link to the law that gives her the right to do that?
Thank you. My sentiments exactly. Perhaps it is time to tell CHS how you feel about gutter level, tabloid bile by making the decision to no longer visit this site. That is what I plan to do. I encourage others to do the same. Contact CHS advertisers and tell them why you will no longer visit the site.
A costly lesson is a lesson learned.